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Author | Topic: the rocks speak | |||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
quote: Most corpses are eaten away my bacteria, worms, whatever-- most, but not all. Under some conditions bodies get preserved relatively well. We can demonstrate this. For example, an animal kill by a mudslide and buried under ten feet of dirt won't decay like an animal on the surface. For one thing, scavengers won't be able to get to it, the oxygen content is different, the chemical composition is different. It isn't really a problem. Also remember that the vaste majorty of fossils aren't all that well preserved. We get tiny bits of bone, some teeth, a track mark here and there. We aren't getting Von Hagen's quality preservation.
quote: I'm not sure about this particular case. Darwin may have simply been wrong about the orchids. It doesn't disprove the ToE. Another possibility is that other insects replaced the bees in the orchid's life cycle. This happens. Animals tend to be oppurtunistic. I am also interested in what is meant by survive? Did the orchids simply live under the creation scientist's care or did they survive and reproduce without assistance? ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com {Fixed link UBB code - Adminnemooseus} [This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 05-11-2003]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Well, really, you should find out for sure. Otherwise, your story doesn't mean much. Even if it is the case that the orchids survive and reproduce, the story may not mean much, for reasons I and several others have pointed out already. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Well... that's not evolution. Non-matter didn't create matter, but energy and matter are interchangeable. And matter does, BTW, appear to pop into and out of existence all the time. It can be measured. It is called the Casimir effect.
quote: Inorganic matter is different from organic matter in what way exactly? Seems to be the same stuff to me-- atoms, molecules, and bigger molecules.
quote: Many? Would that be 'many' in relation to those that do not accept creationism? Or would that be 'many' as in sort-of a meaningless literary device?
quote: You seem to feel that numbers of believers is an important factor in determining the truth of a claim, though this is fallacious. Numbers has no real bearing on whether the claim is true. But just for fun, why is it that you are getting 93 out of a hundred rejecting creationism?
[qs]This is clearly not the case in Ohio where the vast majority (93%) of science professors said they were not aware of "any scientifically valid evidence or an alternate scientific theory that challenges the fundamental principles of the theory of evolution."
ncseweb.org Not exactly creationism but...
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.ovpr.uga.edu/rcd/researchreporter/summer99/god.html So... why is that? Now try this. Ask a relevant question. Say, ask a geologist about the flood. Or ask an archeaologist about the exodus. The numbers will fail you. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: So you don't really know what the difference is then. That's what I thought.
quote: So, you've succeeded in not really answering the question, and at the same time highlighted your own ignorance of chemistry. Congrats...
quote: No? Really? Many? That many?
quote: We are counting those heavy science majors like Art, and Dance, right? Really, this point is pretty silly. Why would you expect 100% agreement between the graduates on anything? You are talking about thousands of people. Some go in and come out with hang-overs, some come out with an education.
quote: You can't possibly know this to be true. You don't know how educated and accomplished I am or ain't. But the cheap shots really do make me look bad... oh, wait, they make you look bad.
quote: Yes, indeed. Ask a chemist.
quote: No. Not really. Any random sample of trained geologists will do.
quote: Why would you ask a scientist a question pertaining to his or her field?
quote: It seemed that we were talking about how many graduates don't believe evolution. I suggest you stick to asking questions within the field of the individual scientist. I imagine that you include all graduates who do not believe evolution-- like the poets and violinists-- yet you object to asking an archeaologist about archeaology?
quote: What?
quote: Yet you brought up the numbers game? Curious....
quote: Hey, maybe you should contact Prof. Xavier and see if you can't join his team!!! ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Did I say that? Nope. I said ask an archeaologist about about archeaology, similar to the way one might ask a chemist about chemistry-- which you certainly need to do-- or the way one might ask a cosmologist about galaxies, or a manicurist about nail-polish. It was an example, brainiac. It is relevant because you brought up the idea that many graduates leave the university unconvinced of evolution. You do not qualify this as 'graduates who obtained a degree in relevant fields.' You state, simply, 'many graduates.' Thus committing the error you accuse me of committing-- that of asking questions of people not qualified to answer. I suggest that you ask the right questions of the right people.
quote: It actually includes several species of genus 'homo' and 'australopithicus' extending back a few million years. Beyond that, the torch is for the most part handed to other specialists. It does in fact have to do with the biological evolution of one particular species-- humans. Mostly, archeaologists stick to the last couple of million years, and to a handful of species, but the branch of physical anthropology tackles the whole evolutionary sequence.
quote: I'm being emotional? Look in the mirror bud.
quote: Like hell. Your over-the-top reaction to a comment about the exodus is plenty disclosure.
quote: Try to learn English. Maybe try looking up non sequitur.
quote: 1) The difference is the presence of carbon in the molecules.2) Real chemists distinguish because it is convenient, and probably betrays some history of scientific thought as well. 3) There is no clear distinction. An organic carbon atom is just like an inorganic carbon atom, and its component parts are just like the component parts of any other atom. 4) Who said I face a conundrum? As it appears to me, you have to provide evidence for some essential division of matter that no one has yet noticed. So what is organic matter? Lets see. I die. I rot. I turn to dirt. Is my matter still organic? Once organic always organic? Say we take a molecule from my body and break it into its component atoms. Those atoms look and behave just like atoms you can get from a rock. What is the difference? A plant takes in atmospheric CO2 and converts it into biomass. Somewhere along the line that inorganic carbon becomes organic? A what point does this happen? And what part of the atom or molecule changes when this does happen? Or maybe atmospheric carbon is all organic? Lets say I did up some salt out of the ground and eat it. This salt becomes part of my body. Does it therefore become organic? Eventually, the salt leaves my body in sweat, for example. Does it suddenly lose its 'organic-ness'? It is the same molecule coming, going and floating around in my blood. So what it the big difference? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
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John Inactive Member |
quote: ... exactly the question Fencer never answered. The clarification of organic chemistry was useful, BTW. ------------------
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