quote:
Perhaps you feel that the discourse of Christ on Him being the true bread from heaven is not relevant. If so, I don't think I can help you.
But just in case you missed it, much of my discourse was enfluenced by these words and more from the sixth chapter of John:
"Jesus therefore said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, Moses has not given you the bread out of heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world ... I am the bread of life ..."
Now if you feel that these words of Jesus are irrelevant to the topic of the "what does the Bible really mean" in Exodus concerning manna, then I don't think I can help you.
We're talking about what manna could have been, see the verses quoted from the OP:
Exodus 16:13-31*
13”; and in the morning dew lay round about the camp.
14 And when the dew had gone up, there was on the face of the wilderness a ne, ake-like thing, ne as hoarfrost on the groud.
15 When the people of Israel saw it, they said to one another, "It is manna." For they did not know what it was. And Moses said to them "It is bread which the Lord has given you to eat.
16 This is what the Lord has commanded: 'Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of the persons whom each of you has in his tent.'"
17 And the people of Israel did so; they gathered, some more, some less.
18 But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat.
19 And Moses said to them, "Let no man leave any of it till the morning."
20 But they did not listen to Moses; some left part of it till morning, and it bred worms and became foul; and Moses was angry with them.
21 Morning by morning they gathered it, each as much as he could eat; but when the sun grew hot, it melted.
...
31 Now the house of Israel called its name manna; it was like coriander seed, white, and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey. (Revised Standard Version)
These are the Exodus verses, not the New Testament you quoted. In any case your verses there do not mention manna, just bread. I'm still not seeing the manna-bread-Christ connection except as a shoehorning by you.
And excuse me? You can't 'help' me? We're talking about a couple of bible verses, jaywill, not my particular personal spirituality.
quote:
It sounds to me that you do not realize the the whole Bible has Christ and His salvation as its underlying major theme.
It may not sound profound to you. But your reaction above sounds particularly obtruse and dull to me. That is because you seemed to not have grasped the there was forethought and foreknowledge on the part of God when He performed certain acts.
No offence, but when I read the
bible, i.e. the supposed word of your god, he comes off as being a petty and vindictive child most of the time. He never once seemed like the planning type. So unless you're prepared to start another thread on biblical prophesy (and we all know that horse has been beaten to death and then some) I'd suggest you leave this out of the discussion.
quote:
The entire line of God sending a savior Moses, the Passover lamb, the crossing of the Red Sea, the traveling through the desert to the good land, the miracles and lessons of the wilderness stay have relevance to God's overall plan of salvation.
I am sorry that you seem not to grasp even a glimmer of this. But just in case you missed it, the Apostles apparently did not. Peter, Paul, and John assure us that God had Christ's salvation on His mind in many many historical acts found in the Old Testament.
What does this have to do with the Exodus verses? And again, I can grasp the idea fairly readily. I just don't think it adds up. The verses in Exodus just don't read that way, and unless you demonstrate it
while referring to the verses in Exodus, I shall remain skeptical.
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I admit that I am verbose. I admit that I am thrilled to ramble on and on about types and shadows of the Old Testament pointing to Christ. I write here not only for your sake but for the sake of others who might pick up some helpful explanations related to the discussion.
Some of us choose not to dumb down the Bible for the dull and even less for those who mock.
Rambling on is no way to enter into a debate, jaywill. From all I can gather from your rambling, you are espousing a particular interpretation that does not fit the Exodus verses. You should not be writing for me or anyone else. You should be trying to support your interpretation by referring to the verses and pointing out why and where 'manna' is metaphorically some guy who was born long after the events in Exodus occurred.
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It may be my personal belief. But it is also related to the proper interpretation of the manna. Anything you eat enters into you and becomes part of you.
Again you are only revealing you dullness in grasping some major spiritual themes in the Bible. Sorry, the Bible is a spiritual book in case you didn't notice.
I tried to take you back to Genesis to show you that even the tree of life as food has tremendous significance to divine life entering the vessel of man's being.
I tried to relate the basic principles of Adam's creation to the ongoing principles of Israel's being fed by God by strange "manna" from heaven. I'm sorry that you see no relationship with the ongoing theme of God wanting to put something heavenely or divine INTO man's being.
But at no point have you shown that the manna referenced in Exodus is meant to be taken as meaning the body of Jesus Christ. That is the point I am trying to get across here. I'll give you all that, that your god wants people to...er... eat his divine essence or whatever. But again, there is no indication that these verses should be connected to Jesus, other than the New Testament thingy about him also being god (and thus being eaten by association).
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That is where you are dead wrong. We believers interpret the Bible with the Bible and by the Bible.
You see no overall scheme and no overall plan of salvation. That is your problem. You want me to take you seriously? Why do you not take seriously a man who authored 13 or so books of the Bible, Paul when he helps the Christians to understand by writing...
But he lived hundreds of years after the Exodus, and
he was writing about the same verses! That was his interpretation, jaywill, his opinion. You just agree with it, and you are using his opinion to try to support yours. That just doesn't work.
Do not reference my spirituality anymore. It is not relevent, and I will take it as a personal attack if you do because I will not discuss my particular religion here. My 'overall plan of salvation' has nothing to do with the manna in Exodus.
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The question I have is do you have a "spritual" interest? I see some talk here about what the manna was which is good to tickle the curious mind. I thought some participants might want to get the "spiritual" significance of these matters. And I bet some do if you the mockers.
You are preaching, and you are not interested in a debate here. Anyone interested in a debate about a particular subject will not, repeat not, bring the faith of the other debators into the discussion. You are only interested in prosthelytising, whether to me or anyone who might be reading this thread. You find me dull? I find you dishonest.
I say again; there is nothing
in the Exodus verses to suggest that they should be taken to mean anything except what they say. If you want to believe that the manna referenced there is supposed to mean the body of Christ or whatever, that's fine, but the verses do not support it and quoting bible passages written long after Exodus by a guy who agrees with you is not going to help your case.
I will wait to see your next reply, and then decide if I should leave this thread.
IRH
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