Manna from Heaven. What the Grossness? (Ex. 16)

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A couple important properties to keep in mind:

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1) It easily attracts worms;

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Your conclusion was hasty. As the 'bread' did not rot on the Saturday - it means it does not attract worms, but appears to follow the exact words of Moses in his detail of its process. Also, by this time, the Israelites were either given the sabaath law, or were being tested of its eminant giving.Also, as per its texts, I cannot be too hasty in concluding this story is totally mythical. Because it does not infringe any historical or logical factors otherwsie. The text says this was an uncharted desert, where food and water are major issues - it is barren; here, the text does not contain any dis-history by including any incorrect foods or items of its spacetime, while it correctly lists the diets of the ancient egyptians - how the Israelites yearned for garlic, fish and melons [no tomatoes here!] of Egypt; the correct distances and names of cities before entering the desert - including names of cities [Ramesey, Pithom and Goshen]; the King's Highway [coastal route] which was not taken; the collecting of Joseph's embalmed remains; the correct divisions of the tribes and a scientific cencus with age and gender sub-totals; and numerous ancient nations encountered. This part is not mythology.

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It is not talking about the events themselves but about the layout of a tabernacle from a much later date and tradition.

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I'm intrigued here: what is this 'later date' proof or evidence?

Where do you get your info on concluding such - or is it your own personal assessment, and if so - what is it based on?

I'm surprised, and its a weak arguement.I see no motive for a report like a tabernacle building as being made up. Whatever for? This related to the situation in its context - where would the people sleep when travelling in a desert? It would be a gltich if this issue was not attended to in the narratives. As well, that it is a rememberence fastival observed each year from down the ages - it has autheticity. It is only a mark of veracity that such minute items are focused on with the OT - it means there is nothing substantial to point at.

IMHO, it reflects sparks of the Torah, as seen by different traditions and compulsions. The same occured with Islam. All 3 belief systems would not have emerged w/o the Torah, otherwise all the compulsions which occured would have no reason to occur, and there would be no logic to millions of christians fussing over one human's death: 1.1M other Jews also sacrificed themselves in the same spacetime, in a manner far more powerfully than did Jesus - but a mysterious compulsion occured, even one which defied all logic.It is evident that christians are not stupid, being the world's most advanced and powerful religious group - there was no logical reason to be impressed with JC - yet they will give their lives for this belief. What does it mean?

It responds to what is the common denominator between the religions, and if manna has anything to do with the NT. It does not, however we have a religious group believing it does - which reason will fall elsewhere.

While I respect all sincere beliefs, and christian belief is 100% sincere about Jesus, I doubt that prophesy works retrospectively, or by the end source vindicating a concluded premise. Islam does the same ['Moses is a Muslim]. The OT does not do that because it has no precedent - but if it did do so, I'd seriously question it.

About the Manna, the text says it was like nothing the people saw before, its closest description was alligned with white and coriandar or parsely. The amazing part here, IMHO, is the exquisite description how it landed from atop: slowly so it could be plucked from the air; a hoary mistlike covering on top [to keep it clean], and a cover at its bottom [as a serving plate] - talk about 5-star quisine. This description throws a spanner in the works when one sees this as just myth, legend and imagination.There is oral law commentary on this, that the manna tasted like anything one wanted it to. Still, it was not the real thing, and the people did get fed up of it - complaining how they missed the fleshpots of Egypt. The laws of nature were not stopped, outside of the manna, and the nature of man displayed itself.

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If that description isn't just your imagination, please quote book, chapter and verse.

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My imagination is good, but not this good:

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Ex 15/ 13 And it came to pass at even, that the quails came up, and covered the camp; and in the morning there was a layer of dew round about the camp. 14 And when the layer of dew was gone up, behold upon the face of the wilderness a fine, scale-like thing, fine as the hoar-frost on the ground. 15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another: 'What is it?'--for they knew not what it was. And Moses said unto them: 'It is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.

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Whoah. Its not a stuff up. I will post you more on this later. But the descriptions I already posted well alligns with what I said w/o contradiction and alternative, if anything it is far more equisitively portrayed.'.. a fine, scale-like thing, fine as the hoar-frost on the ground.' - this refers to a packaged enclosure encasing the manna. My extent of my original point here was, this story which is so unimaginable and based on a miraculous premise, is very well and authentically described - as if it really did happen.

What is your take on the frost being mentioned in this context - does it refer to a weather report?

I know that the OT writings are pristine and contextual, and in this case, there was no weather report being issued - the corrupt reading here if so applied. I note that, the hoary frost [imagine a spider web clothing], is applied to the 'scale-like thing' [the manna which descended upon the ground] - not the surrounding environs! The mann being referred to as 'thing' alligns with the peoples' recording bewilderment at this thing, which also says they never saw anything like it.

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And when the layer of dew was gone up, behold upon the face of the wilderness a fine, scale-like thing, fine as the hoar-frost on the ground.

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says that the manna looked like hoar frost on the ground - fine and white. That's all.

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That's also a sufficient reason for eliminating this was not a weather report, or the said hoaryfrost was not connected with the Manna. That it appears like it was a hoaryfrost lieing on the ground, is condusive to the oral law descriptions, the manna appeared to be delivered in a fine cuisinic fashion, to protect it from the sand, insects and birds. If the manna miracle is condoned here - the frost being specifically attached to it, is not so far fetched.The descriptions throughout the desert wanderings appear very logically described, and caters to real phenomena. The pillar of fire protected against invaders and the freezing conditions at night; while the day time pillar of cloud offered protect from the desert sun. The camps never knew their direction in this uncharted region, thus it says the camp stayed or moved as the pillar of fire dictated - and that there were 42 such stops before reaching canaan.here, aside fromn such events being provable, there is the attaching factor its descriptions are well condusive to a reality: if it occured, it would have occured exactly as described.

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Nonsense. It says it looked just like something they were very familiar with, hoarfrost.
When you continue to post stuff that shows you are simply making shit up, why should anyone believe anything you say?

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It seems your making up what you accuse. I am not making up anything which is not clearly and fully backed by the actual text:

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15 And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another: 'What is it?'--for they knew not what it was. And Moses said unto them: 'It is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.

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...so how did you conclude they were associating this with frost - and that they never knew what frost is!?Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

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You even quoted what I said.

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jar writes:
Nonsense. It says it looked just like something they were very familiar with, hoarfrost.
When you continue to post stuff that shows you are simply making shit up, why should anyone believe anything you say?

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No, what I said was, the frost description was connected to the manna. There is no other connections here.

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Exodus 16:14 says "4And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground. "

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So now, not only are you making stuff up but you are misrepresenting what others say and even quote what they said showing where and how you misrepresented them.

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Do you see, it says WHEN THE DEW WAS GONE UP - meaning the manna was then clearly seen, and this was a 'small round thing', then clarified by Moses this was the manna. Your comprehnsion is widely varied from mine.

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Is there any wonder that people look at your version of Christianity and simply run away laughing?

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Hardly. I am giving only an OT version, held for some 3000 years, and seen in its ancient commentary.Whatever is being said in your posts should be stated as your preamble: are you saying the described hoaryfrost is NOT specifically connected to the manna? What are you referring to that people are laughing: I am laughing at you too? Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.