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Author | Topic: Religion v Spirituality | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
bren writes: curiosity (that is excessive curiosity) and wanderlust are subset of that which makes up spirituality. just like christianity isn't the sum total of religion. Xianity is a religion. Curiosity and wanderlust are not a spirituality. What gets me is that everyone and their dog has thir own version of what 'spirituality' means. Normally it's just a whooly catch all word for nebulous etheric concepts that hark back to the soul and use words like 'positive' and 'negative' energy, vibrations, crystals and the like. On the other hand if you are using spiritual in a different way I would be interested to hear your definition.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
my previous post:
message 6
it really all depends on how you look at the two subjects. religion tends to evoke ideas of institutionalized ritual. but it doesn't really have to include such things. and institutionalized ritual doesn't have to involve anything supernatural. spirituality tends to evoke solitary explorations of self and beyond. but it doesn't have to be hoodoo. spirituality includes such solidly science-defended things such as meditation. while that particular practice is often based on other understandings, meditation-type thought centering practices are widely recognized by the scientific community as having very real benefits. but, they don't come from the hoodoo, they come from yourself. as far as i'm concerned, religion and spirituality are nothing more than exploring the world around you and taking note of how it affects you. different people have different answers, but all ritual is ritual and all exploration is exploration. no, i don't mean "science is just another god" but that where we choose to look for answers does not change that we are looking for answers. you may or may not be satisfied with the answers or non-answers you get. that's your issue.
Xianity is a religion. yes. unfortunately for this simile, christianity is a very specific and ritualized religion. others are not.
Curiosity and wanderlust are not a spirituality. they can be. that's the thing about both religion and spirituality. they are always very individual. it's how a person answers questions for himself.
What gets me is that everyone and their dog has thir own version of what 'spirituality' means. exactly. but how is that different from anything else subjective (as though, when people are concerned,there are objective things)?
Normally it's just a whooly catch all word for nebulous etheric concepts that hark back to the soul and use words like 'positive' and 'negative' energy, vibrations, crystals and the like. according to whom? there are loads of "spiritualists" and "mystics" who are strict followers of traditional religions. modern "spirituality" tends to be a function of new-age, post native american wooo wooo, but that doesn't change the nature of spirituality in general. the problem is that people tend to define a thing by it's current, most popular, most vocal incarnation. spirituality is no more defined by new age wooo wooo than christianity is defined by mandaean gnostics.
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BMG Member (Idle past 238 days) Posts: 357 From: Southwestern U.S. Joined: |
How's that different from curiosity or wanderlust? To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. I think a possibility is the subject that which arouses curiousity could be one of many determining factors. Another possibilty is, who is the person that is determining whether what they are curious about fits beneath the umbrella of "spirituality"? I am curious as to why my cat pissed on the carpet, even though it knows where the litterbox is and has used it on many occasion. Is this a spiritual question? Personally, I don't think it is, but to someone that sees cats as an important spiritual being in their own subjective view may find this as a problem that deals with spirituality.
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Bren writes: the problem is that people tend to define a thing by it's current, most popular, most vocal incarnation. spirituality is no more defined by new age wooo wooo than christianity is defined by mandaean gnostics. I know I'm kind of tilting at windmills on this one a little but I can't get the idea of whooly minded hippies sounding off about being so 'spiritual' as if that means something special out of my head. Ill put my axe and grindstone away, for now.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
whooly minded hippies sounding off about being so 'spiritual' i know. life's rough.
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pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
Are your hateful 'thoughts' physical?
On the question of spirit, my definition is energy and I believe all combined non-physical aspects of self are spirit. You are disputing this. What is your idea of spirit? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet. Edited by Heinrik, : No reason given.
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pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
E=MC2 is a formula. It proves two forms of the same thing. However they are totally different forms and it is the enrgy side of the equasion that I am referring to. Einstein could clearly see the difference or else it wouldn't be a formula. It would be one form.
Maybe you see e=mc2 as something else, if so I would love to hear it.
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pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
I am referring to the emotions, not the physical reactions to them.
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Woodsy Member (Idle past 3403 days) Posts: 301 From: Burlington, Canada Joined: |
Are your hateful 'thoughts' physical? On the question of spirit, my definition is energy and I believe all combined non-physical aspects of self are spirit. You are disputing this. What is your idea of spirit? You seem to be confusing processes with physical things. If thoughts and so forth are processes occurring in a physical setting (like a brain), it makes no sense to talk of them as substances, physical or otherwise. I suspect that this error is at the root of notions of "spirit" and "soul". In a conversation recorded among Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens (you can find it on Dawkin's web site), a useful distinction came up: spiritual vs numinous. Numinous has to do with feelings such as wonder that occur to people. Such feelings are real experiences, but any connection to anything spiritual (non-material, gods, ghosts etc) has to justified separately.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5901 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
In a conversation recorded among Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens (you can find it on Dawkin's web site), a useful distinction came up: spiritual vs numinous. Numinous has to do with feelings such as wonder that occur to people. Such feelings are real experiences, but any connection to anything spiritual (non-material, gods, ghosts etc) has to justified separately. Thanks for bringing this point up, Woodsy. I was trying to think of a good way to suggest that distinction. I had forgotten the idea of "numinous". I would posit that a sense of wonder - a sense of the numinous? - is a common trait shared across our species (although what constitutes "wonderous" would be different for different people, cultures, and times). I certainly feel a sense of wonder at many things in the world around me, but I've always been really uncomfortable with defining that as "spiritual" because of the association with gods, ghosts and things that go "bump" in the night.. "Numinous" sounds right.
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Heinrik writes: What is your idea of spirit? Untill there is any evidence of spirit my idea of spirit is tha there is no such thing. Apart from booze, that is.
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pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
wrong thread
Edited by dameeva, : wrong thread
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pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
Untill there is any evidence of spirit my idea of spirit is tha there is no such thing If spirit doesn't exist by your reasoning, what are you actually disputing?
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
If there is no such thing as spirit than it cannot be linked in any way to religion which is real.
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pelican Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
Spirituality seems to becoming very popular in different forms, do you think it will 'take over' religion?
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