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Rahvin
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Joined: 07-01-2005
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Message 13 of 27 (507385)
05-04-2009 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Percy
05-04-2009 8:25 AM


Re: Thanks For The Suggestions
There is no shortage of such books. The most famous are...
snip
The problem is the lack of effective criticisms of evolution.
The real shortage is in papers published in scientific journals that criticize evolution - there aren't any.
Books, YouTube videos, and websites are not peer reviewed, and don't have to hold to any standard of truth or competence in the subject matter. Just look at the now-infamous Ray Comfort video that calls the banana "the Atheist's nightmare" because of how well-suited it is to human consumption...and which completely ignores the fact that modern bananas are the result of hundreds or thousands of years of human domestication, and that wild bananas display none of the features Ray mentions. Whether Ray's statements were the result of dishonesty or simple ignorance, they were factually incorrect. Creationist sources tend to have these sorts of problems in abundance - authors find "evidence" that agrees with their pre-existing conclusion (the Bible is literally true), and ignore anything that contradicts that established view, including using "evidence" that simply does not mean what they think it means.
So while Percy is correct in pointing out that there are many, many books that cast doubt on the Theory of Evolution, it is also true that none of those books or other sources make an effective criticism. They can always be boiled down to a series of misconceptions, ignorance, and outright dishonesty.
If you want to find a real criticism of the Theory of Evolution, you need to be looking at published papers in scientific journals. These are required to maintain a level of accuracy, and the authors are held to a standard of competency in the subject matter. The fact that there are no such papers that reveal inaccuracies in the Theory of Evolution suggests that those who actually know what they're talking about, the people who perform the repeatable experiments, make the direct observations, and hold to objective facts and supported assertions wherever the evidence leads, hold the Theory of Evolution to be an incredibly accurate representation of the mechanisms at work in the real world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Percy, posted 05-04-2009 8:25 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 7.6


Message 19 of 27 (507409)
05-04-2009 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by InGodITrust
05-04-2009 4:38 PM


Re: Hey Devil's Advocate and Percy
Anyway, I'm not very familiar with Creationism, but if it is true that it is not true science, but religion disguised as science, then I don't want it taught in schools either.
It is not science. It has nothing at all to do with science. It's about trying to prove a pre-existing conclusion by acknowledging that which supprots the conclusion and dismissing that which does not, and it's further complicated by extreme dishonesty and ignorance such that Creationsits put forward "evidence" that in reality supports nothing approaching what they believe it to support.
Not only would children miss out on learning true science, but it would also violate our principle of separation of church and state.
This is why Creationism and it's inbred stepchild Intelligent Design have been excluded from public classrooms by the Supreme Court.
I do think, though, that before any science that conflicts with major religions is taught, the teachers should explain the conflict,
That's unfortunately a bit unreasonable. Which major religions? Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Hindu? Which denomination of each? Some Chrsitians have no problem with evolution and an old Earth; many others do. Hindus have no issue with an old Earth, but would conflict basically everything else in the other major religions.
Why not simply teach science, with a statement by the teacher that what they are learning is what can be independantly verified to be highly accurate through methodical observation and testing, along with an in-depth examination of teh scientific methiod and how/why it leads to accurate representations of reality?
Why not simply teach science?
and also define a scientific theory. And quiz the kids on the definition of a scientific theory. I think some teachers may just present evolution and the big bang as flat-out, absolute truths.
It's worse than that - many teachers don't understand evolution themselves. Students are rarely exposed to a real, solid class on evolution until the college level, and that only if they take biology classes. High school level biology may spend all of a week on evolution, and many students still walk away thinking that a "mutant" is something akin to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or that evolution will eventually lead to the world portrayed in the "X-Men" movies. When they're taught that "birds became dinosaurs," they frequently believe that they are being told that, literally, a T-rex transformed into a pigeon - this is why people like Ray Comfort expect evolution to result in weird half-dog, half-cat chimeras.
The quality of science education needs to be drastically improved in this country, and that's not going to happen when religious institutions are allowed to interfere with scientific instruction. We tried that back when the church burned heretics for suggesting that the Bible may not be a viable historical account; the results for humanity were less than ideal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by InGodITrust, posted 05-04-2009 4:38 PM InGodITrust has not replied

  
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