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Author Topic:   Bilingualism
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 47 of 71 (518843)
08-08-2009 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by dwise1
08-08-2009 4:53 AM


Re: Bilingualism - Bringing Up Kids
In case I need to elucidate, my personal experience with German as when he was much younger. Your wife has established with your son that Spanish is a means of communication, and to me that is the vital point to be made with your offspring. In my opinion (such as it is), that is the all-important deciding factor. To my own limited opinion and experience, you are leading your son in the right direction.
Cheers!! I think so too!
Even if in moments of self doubt and contemplation I feel the need to explore the potential difficulties in doing so on an interent forum............ But that probably says more about my own neuroses than it does my sons linguistic development.
Anyway thanks for your comments O'wise one.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 48 of 71 (518844)
08-08-2009 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by dwise1
08-08-2009 5:19 AM


Norman Tebbit's - "Cricket Test" of National Allegiance
More seriously, with what country should his loyalties lie? That is a kind of serious question to consider. Citizenship-wise, shouldn't he be British? Culturally, isnt' that a hazier question? Should he be tied to one particular national identity? Or should he transcend individual national identities? He is, after all, more than just merely British, is he not?
I will genuinely do all I can to make sure that he does respect and appreciate both cultures. Language is a part of that. Maintaining relationships with his family on the other side of the world is another key part of that.
In terms of sport.... Well if he is like me as a kid he will just support whoever is winning!!! I supported the West Indian cricket team (much to my dad's amusement) when I was a kid despite having no ancestral link to the Carribean whatsoever!! They were the best team. I was brought up in a very "black" neighbourhood. It was the natural conclusion for any self respecting kid in my situation.
This actually raises a serious point. A famous right-wing British politician raised what he called "the cricket test" as a means of testing the national and cultural loyalties of citizens. It was widely derided here and I personally have no time for it. Too simplistic and narrow minded approach to a complex cultural, social and historical issue made by a politician all too often associated with thinly veiled racism. But if you are interested here is a link: Cricket test - Wikipedia
He is, after all, more than just merely British, is he not?
Of course!!!! He even has two passports. But having said that, in terms of sport alone, I still hope to indoctrinate him into supporting the "right" team. No matter how much better at football Argentina may be

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Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 52 of 71 (518983)
08-10-2009 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by dwise1
08-08-2009 10:18 PM


Language In School
So when it becomes apparent that the person doesn't understand English, does the tourist repeat himself, only louder?
Louder and slower. That is indeed the stereotype, source of much comedy and something I have seen actually happen on numerous occasions.
And I've always understood that so many Europeans are polyglots because they needed to be, what with being surrounded on all sides by foreign languages.
My experience of continental European countries is that the less internationally spoken their own language is the more able they are to speak several others. For example the Dutch people I have known all seem to speak a bit of every main European language and are fluent in a few. Germans too. The French and Spanish less so. The British least of all.
But now my ideas have been challenged by the British. They're surrounded by foreign languages (indeed, English is mainly an amalgam of different languages) and yet they follow the isolationalist pattern. Is the UK being a group of islands what leads its population to be insular?
There is definitely a mindeset in some (most?) that consider Europe as "over there". We often use the term Europe to mean continental Europe rather than something that includes Britain. Politically we are not part of the European currency and have a history of being a relatively reluctant part of the wider European political process. Geography and history must be part of the reason for this and for our relative linguistic ineptitude as a nation.
Question: when do British schools start to teach foreign languages?
I started French at 11 (first year of secondary school). I had never done any language classes of any sort before that age. I hated it. I think there have been a number of measures to encourage earlier language learning since I left school going on 20 years ago. But to my knowledge there remains no compulsory requirement, or even standard practise to do so, before the age of 11. If anyone else knows different I would be interested to hear what the current situation is.

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Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 54 of 71 (519008)
08-10-2009 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by caffeine
08-10-2009 11:43 AM


Re: Bilingualism - Bringing Up Kids
Incidentally, I'm not sure I agree with Straggler's impressions of Americans and Brits of various classes 'having a go' at the language.
I guess I was thinking more of those Brits who consider themselves to be reasonably educated "having a go" at French, German, Spanish or one of other main European languages. Even then I was suggesting that in most cases it is a rather pathetic token gesture instead of any genuine attempt at communication in another language.
Pretty much everything I have said in this thread is based on mere personal experience and anecdotal evidence. I will happily concede that such "evidence" can be as unreliable and fallible as it can be convincing.
So feel free to disagree. I am happy to be put right by those with more relevant experience.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by dwise1, posted 08-11-2009 2:14 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 61 of 71 (519090)
08-11-2009 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by dwise1
08-11-2009 2:14 AM


Re: Bilingualism - Bringing Up Kids
I'm thinking that the more educated individuals are aware of the sterotypes and they want to "do it right". Not really "having a go", but rather trying to do it right.
Yep. I'd agree with that.

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Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 62 of 71 (519092)
08-11-2009 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by dwise1
08-11-2009 2:26 AM


Re: Bilingualism - Bringing Up Kids
I still prefer the metric system.
So do I. I have no idea at all about pre-decimal currency (I was born in 1972) but I was taught metric throughout school.
Whilst I have a perfectly good grasp of things like how tall people are in feet and inches, or how much they weigh in pounds etc. etc. metric measurments of such things generally makes much more instinctive sense to me.
With the exception of miles and kilometres where I still have to convert km into miles to get a true idea of distance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by dwise1, posted 08-11-2009 2:26 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by dwise1, posted 08-11-2009 10:48 AM Straggler has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 71 of 71 (520323)
08-20-2009 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Hyroglyphx
08-19-2009 10:36 PM


Re: Bilingualism - Bringing Up Kids
My point is that being that you are married to an Argentine woman, the best way to do this is starting them off as young as possible, as children are little sponges ready to soak up an incalculable amount of stimuli. Having your wife speak to the child in both Spanish and English is the best way.
I am amazed to say that even in the week or two since I first wrote this stuff his Spanish has come on remarkably. He has full on conversations with his mum and with family in Argentina on the phone.
He then comes and tells me what he has been talking to them about (in English). He has even started laughing at me and calling me silly when I don't understand his favorite Abeja Maya cartoons.
I can see the day when him and his mum will be ripping the piss out of me in front of my face while I stand looking in confused monolinguistic bewilderment.
I am gonna have to do some secret Spanish classes.........
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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