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Author Topic:   When was the Tower of Babel Made?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 2 of 56 (53245)
09-01-2003 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by a visitor
09-01-2003 11:33 AM


quote:
"The only indication of the time at which the Tower of Babel was erected, we find in the name of Phaleg (Genesis 11:10-17), the grandnephew of Heber; this places the date somewhere between 101 and 870 years after the Flood. The limits are so unsatisfactory, because the Greek Version differs in its numbers from the Massoretic text."
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Tower of Babel
Now all one needs is to figure out the date of the flood. Good Luck.
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by a visitor, posted 09-01-2003 11:33 AM a visitor has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 22 of 56 (54206)
09-06-2003 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by dragonstyle18
09-06-2003 2:53 PM


John writes:
Humans were not building monolithic structures like towers 30,000 years ago.
dragonstyle18 writes:
We don't know that for sure.
Perhaps. But we do know something about the timing of the Tower of Babel.
quote:
"The only indication of the time at which the Tower of Babel was erected, we find in the name of Phaleg (Genesis 11:10-17), the grandnephew of Heber; this places the date somewhere between 101 and 870 years after the Flood. The limits are so unsatisfactory, because the Greek Version differs in its numbers from the Massoretic text."
Excerpted from CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Tower of Babel
This needs to be viewed together with Genesis 10:25, which in the Living Bible reads:
quote:
Two sons were born to Eber: Peleg (meaning "Division," for during his lifetime the people of the world were separated and dispersed), and Joktan (Peleg's brother).
What do you make of this?
BTW. Phaleg and Peleg are simply two alternative transliterations of the same Hebrew name.
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 2:53 PM dragonstyle18 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 6:20 PM doctrbill has not replied
 Message 31 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 6:24 PM doctrbill has not replied
 Message 33 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 6:33 PM doctrbill has replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 24 of 56 (54210)
09-06-2003 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by defenderofthefaith
09-05-2003 5:34 AM


defenderofthefaith writes:
I cannot find which precisely were the clean ones (before the Flood). Your original question was how they would have enough clean animals; but God specifically says that they can eat any moving thing upon the earth - Genesis 9:3.
Try Leviticus 11 for a listing of clean versus unclean animals (for eating purposes). I know that leaves the question of pre-flood dietary rules. Gen. 1:29 is the only text I know in reference to this question.
Mention of clean versus unclean food animals suggests to me that the story of Noah has been edited with the Law of Moses in mind. Furthermore, the subsequent statement, to which you allude, seems to nullify the previous concern with loading "clean" animals on the ark.
I'm glad you pointed up Gen. 9:3. I had never considered this text before. Seems it to put a crimp in the stuffy dietary laws of Moses, eh?
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by defenderofthefaith, posted 09-05-2003 5:34 AM defenderofthefaith has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 44 of 56 (54265)
09-06-2003 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by dragonstyle18
09-06-2003 6:33 PM


dragonstyle18 writes:
You're saying that there is not enough time between the flood and Babel to get enought people based on the geanealogies, right?
You seem to be confusing me with someone else.
there are gaps in the genealogies of genesis.
25,000 years worth of gaps?
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin
[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 09-06-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 6:33 PM dragonstyle18 has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 46 of 56 (54276)
09-06-2003 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by dragonstyle18
09-06-2003 6:42 PM


quote:
Gen 8:16 Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Yaro writes:
This dosn't mean spread across all the lands, ...
dragonstyle18 writes:
Sorry I mean to say Genesis 8:17 "Bring out every kind of living creature that is with you-the birds, the animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground-so they can multiply on the earth and be fruitful and increase in number upon it" Instead they decide to all settle in one place and start building.
Sorry Drag' but this doesn't mention dispersal and, apparently, applies only to the animals.
Is it really necessary to get nit picky about the why it was stopped?
It is when someone presents a faulty argument in that regard. It would seem that you had remembered the text incorrectly. No big deal. Everyone here has made that mistake at least once.
db
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 6:42 PM dragonstyle18 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 9:24 PM doctrbill has replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 51 of 56 (54283)
09-06-2003 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by dragonstyle18
09-06-2003 9:24 PM


dragonstyle18 writes:
Sounds like disobedience to me
Disobedience of what?
You have so far failed to make the case for disobedience.
The scripture you cited does not say what you wanted it to say.
Is your theological bias more important than the evidence of scripture?
Show us the command to disperse and we will concede this point. Otherwise you are saddling those people with a sin they did not commit. How satanic is that?!
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 9:24 PM dragonstyle18 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 10:02 PM doctrbill has replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 55 of 56 (54339)
09-07-2003 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by dragonstyle18
09-06-2003 10:02 PM


dragonstyle18 writes:
Even if I was wrong, satanic?
The word satan is equivalent to the word "accuser," and you are accusing those people of disobedience. Satan is a role, not a name. Whoever plays the role, is a candidate for the title.
Please read genesis 9:1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth"
Apparently they did this. Filling it with sufficient numbers to undertake a large building project. But "the earth" is not a referene to "the planet." Bible writers did not imagine imagine earth to be a planet. It simply means, "the land." For "fill the earth," read, "fill the land." American's "fill" a land which is larger than the whole world as it was known to denizens of the ancient Middle East. Besides, "fill" does not mean "spill over."
again in verse 7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."
This is about multiplication, not dispersal.
The first verse is clearer as they are told to "fill the earth" which would require moving to different parts
They were already migrating when they found a place to build the tower).
quote:
Now the whole earth had one language and few words. And as men migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. Genesis 11:1,2 Revised Standard Version
This seems to suggest that the "whole earth" was already settled; in which case, if they all moved to "the land of Shinar," there must have been quite a crowd!
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 10:02 PM dragonstyle18 has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 56 of 56 (54341)
09-07-2003 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by John
09-07-2003 12:14 AM


John writes:
That's nice. Reply with a mislabeled quote. Lying for God... geez...
I figured there was something wrong with that quote. The most persuasive clue, for me, was the degree of literacy represented:
quote:
the human population must have went through a "population bottleneck"
Many such sites exhibit marginal literacy. If these guys can't pay attention in English class, how can they discriminate between cock and bull?
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by John, posted 09-07-2003 12:14 AM John has not replied

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