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Author | Topic: Hi ! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Wise Inactive Member |
BTW, Science (NASA) just discovered today (MUSIC) deep tones coming from black holes.
It's not music, it's just sound. Unless it's "music" when I pass gas, as well. What deepening understanding do you speak of?
The steady advancement of science, while religious thought remains mired in the Middle Ages. Boy, have YOU been brainwashed ! ARE you AWARE that If it was not for religious thought Science would not even EXIST? You need to do a study on early education. Are you aware that it was RELIGION thay kept Science, and ALL higher forms of MATH, TRIG and educatiopn alive and flourishing during the middle ages? At one time it was the CLERGY who possesd it ALL!! The world had a big FAT "0" Don't believe me? Are you aware that Harvard was started by a Minister who donated I believe nearly 400 books of education ? {John Harvard)Are you also aware that, at one time, in order to attend HARVARD one HAD TO take seminary? Now, the same applies to Harvard Oxford Princeton Yale And MORE !! Wise
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Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi,
GOOD GOLLY, Don't you know that we have ANCIENT writings from the catacombs with the word YESHUA written on them! Well since Yeshua (Joshua) was a very common name why are you surprised by this?
By the way, I believe Ceasars history was recorded 1,ooo years AFTER he existed. Do we question his existance? But we have ample contemporary references to Julius Caesar, and some of his writings. Here is an extract from Francesco Petrarca's Letter to the Roman Emperor Charles IV in 1355, quoted in A Renaissance Sense of the Past Peter Burke Edward Arnold London, 1969. 'I own a number of Julius Caesar's personal letters. His speeches, many of which are to be found in the works of Lucan and other writers, and one in Sallust, were not composed by him, but by those writers themselves. But he dictated his letters in person. Here is an example. Caesar to Oppius and Cornelius, greetings. I am most glad to learn from your letters that you approve completely of what was done at Confinium. I should be glad of your advice, all the more because I plan to do something that I sarcely pprove of myself There are a few more examples in the book. Caesar is very well attested to as an historical figure, the appeals of certain apologetic websites to the lack of sources for Caesar are simply down to poor scholarship or being too lazy to research the subject themselves they just repeat these amateur errors ad infinitum!. Brian. [This message has been edited by Brian, 09-10-2003]
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2333 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
Witnesses, *500* at ONE TIME Wise, maybe you could provide "some" of the names of these 500 witnesses and references to anything they might have written concerning their eyewitness accounts? You know, 1000 people saw the Great Galactic Goat come down and have tea and crumpets with me. Don't believe me? Why? After all I have said there were 1000 witnesses. ------------------Asgara "An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
ARE you AWARE that If it was not for religious thought Science would not even EXIST? yeah, I'm very aware. Islamic scientists were phenominal astronomers. We still use most of their star names. Chinese medicine came to be very well developed from their religious philosophies. European Christianity preserved most of the works of Greek philosophers, but added little else to science. The question is, what's happened since? Why is modern fundamentalist Chrisianity so anti-science? Absolutely nothing you've brought up has anything to do with the modern relationship of science and religion.
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Wise Inactive Member |
Hi,
GOOD GOLLY, Don't you know that we have ANCIENT writings from the catacombs with the word YESHUA written on them! Well since Yeshua (Joshua) was a very common name why are you surprised by this? There is much more. These catacombs were the first Christian burial sites found upon the Mount of olives! By the way, I believe Ceasars history was recorded 1,ooo years AFTER he existed. Do we question his existance?
But we have ample contemporary references to Julius Caesar, and some of his writings. Here is an extract from Francesco Petrarca's Letter to the Roman Emperor Charles IV in 1355, quoted in A Renaissance Sense of the Past Peter Burke Edward Arnold London, 1969. 'I own a number of Julius Caesar's personal letters. His speeches, many of which are to be found in the works of Lucan and other writers, and one in Sallust, were not composed by him, but by those writers themselves. But he dictated his letters in person. Here is an example. Caesar to Oppius and Cornelius, greetings. I am most glad to learn from your letters that you approve completely of what was done at Confinium. I should be glad of your advice, all the more because I plan to do something that I sarcely pprove of myself There are a few more examples in the book. Caesar is very well attested to as an historical figure, the appeals of certain apologetic websites to the lack of sources for Caesar are simply down to poor scholarship or being too lazy to research the subject themselves they just repeat these amateur errors ad infinitum!. Wise----Nice little "snippet" you have there. Very nice,But it pales in comparison to the some 15,000 or so Christian documents contained within the antiquitiesconcerning Jesus ! Your info is ALSO very contemporary. BUT Christianity has documents as close to 60A.D. concerning Christ !That is CLOSE. DEADLY close. And there have even been reports of some very very old Syriac gospels from 30 A.D.! Wise [This message has been edited by Wise, 09-10-2003]
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
The ascension of the Prophet Muhammed was witnessed by hundreds. Do you follow the teachings of the Qur'an?
There are numerous witnesses attesting to the validity of the Greek gods. For instance, the runner who was delivering a message to Marathon stopped along the way and talked to Pan. Do you believe in the Greek gods? Many unexplained miracles have been attributed to the Dali Lama. Are you Buddhist? See what I'm getting at? Eyewitness accounts in religious documents PROVE nothing. We can't KNOW exact events unless they are recorded in a non-biased manner. What we BELIEVE, however, is up to us. Hence the inalienable right to freely practice religion. As far as humans knowing everything? Probably never will, but trying sure is fun.
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Wise Inactive Member |
ARE you AWARE that If it was not for religious thought Science would not even EXIST?
yeah, I'm very aware. Islamic scientists were phenominal astronomers. We still use most of their star names. Chinese medicine came to be very well developed from their religious philosophies. European Christianity preserved most of the works of Greek philosophers, but added little else to science. The question is, what's happened since? Why is modern fundamentalist Chrisianity so anti-science? Absolutely nothing you've brought up has anything to do with the modern relationship of science and religion. Science will FAIL without Christianity. Its death knell is already in place.Remember, it was Christianity that Nourished it Cherished it Taught it Allowed it to flourish At the time the only other schools that existed were military, or physical oriented schools. And now you ask, "what has happened since?" Open your eyes. How has Public education been doing lately? Have they been turning out scholars?The Public School system is a failure. And guess what? It is absent of God ! Do you see the connection? What has Christianity done since? Home School. It IS a Christian idea. You see, God ALWAYS entrusts the very best to his own. ALWAYS. And quess what? He is returning the very best to his own, right BEFORE your eyes ! Wise
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Wise Inactive Member |
The ascension of the Prophet Muhammed was witnessed by hundreds. Do you follow the teachings of the Qur'an? Prove it. Chapter and verse?
There are numerous witnesses attesting to the validity of the Greek gods. For instance, the runner who was delivering a message to Marathon stopped along the way and talked to Pan. Do you believe in the Greek gods? Numerous? You have shown one individual with no supporting documents.
Many unexplained miracles have been attributed to the Dali Lama. Are you Buddhist? So what? Irrelevant.
See what I'm getting at? Eyewitness accounts in religious documents PROVE nothing. We can't KNOW exact events unless they are recorded in a non-biased manner. What we BELIEVE, however, is up to us. Hence the inalienable right to freely practice religion. Tell that to professor Greanleaf. Eyewitness accounts by *4* different authors and hosts of other individuals at once mean something. Keep in mind that these individuals gave their very lives for it. BTW, Christianity is the ONLY faith that has a resurrection WITH witnesses. This separates it from A-L-L religions. Wise
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Wise Inactive Member |
Witnesses, *500* at ONE TIME
Wise, maybe you could provide "some" of the names of these 500 witnesses and references to anything they might have written concerning their eyewitness accounts? You know, 1000 people saw the Great Galactic Goat come down and have tea and crumpets with me. Don't believe me? Why? After all I have said there were 1000 witnesses. Yes, and can you provide *4* different authors with the SAME story? Heh heh... Nope. Wise
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Wise Inactive Member |
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
How has Public education been doing lately? Have they been turning out scholars? Well, there's some scholars here. Why don't you ask them if they went to public school?
At the time the only other schools that existed were military, or physical oriented schools. In Europe, yes. China has a scholastic tradition that extends back for thousands of years.
Allowed it to flourish Oh, right, like how they allowed Galileo to do his science. Oh, wait. The exact opposite.
Home School. The blind leading the blind, you mean.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Yes, and can you provide *4* different authors with the SAME story? Why, can you?
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DBlevins Member (Idle past 3806 days) Posts: 652 From: Puyallup, WA. Joined: |
Well since time is relative, the time it takes for someone to travel across our Galaxy, at or close to the speed of light, it would depend on their frame of reference. For an observer, say on the Earth, it would take about 100,000 years or so. For the traveler, it would take him 10 years or so.
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Loudmouth Inactive Member |
Prove it. Chapter and verse?
Retracted, don't know what I was thinking. My memory is fading.
Tell that to professor Greanleaf. Eyewitness accounts by *4* different authors and hosts of other individuals at once mean something. Keep in mind that these individuals gave their very lives for it.
The four gospels aren't necessarily penned by the apostles named. Some religious scholars posit that the gospels were penned and then attributed to one of the apostles to give their writings validity. Also, they might have been passed along as oral tradition among the followers of Jesus. http://www.onr.com/user/bejo/4gospels.htmIntroduction - the Gospels The original authorship can not be confirmed, therefore the validity of eyewitness accounts can not be confirmed. As far as the followers giving up their lives, look at war where the only thing being fought for is freedom. People give up their lives for many reasons, even false pretenses.
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awinkisas Inactive Member |
Well Wise, you’ve been busy since I last checked this site.
I’d like to start by noting that during the Middle Ages the Church did nothing to foster science. It was actually the Muslims, Chinese and Indians who were the most active during this time. For example, the great library of Alexandria was destroyed by a Christian riot in A.D. 389. The church even resurrected the theory that the earth was flat and at around the same time the Academy and the Lyceum were closed down by Justinian. The only positive thing that can be said about the church during this period was they preserved the knowledge of the Greeks. They however attempted to integrate the philosophy of Aristotle with Catholic theology. That set the field of science back because now everything had to be reconciled with Aristotelian teachings. So as you can see the church did very little to help science. In fact it required a renaissance in order to overcome the church. Science had to be "born again".
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