Extraterrestrial life and God.

It doesn't say that God created microbes either, and yet we've discovered them. It doesn't say that God created other planets, yet they're out there.It doesn't say that Moses ever took a piss. Yet I don't think anyone believes he was gifted with a superhuman bladder.Respectfully,-Meldinoor

First off, you can't "disprove" a "Creator". One can disprove specific creation stories, like the notion that the earth is 6000 years old. But you can't disprove a Creator, it's just too vague. That's like trying to disprove a "Gnarf". If you don't define what it is, and what it does, you can't decide whether it exists or not. Microbes would be more significant IMO. They cause diseases, help digest our food, and break down carcasses (and a plethora of other functions). They are also the most varied and abundant life on earth. If God spent a whole day just designing "land animals" you'd think he'd deign to mention the myriads of microbes he created.
ETs, OTOH, are not even a part of this planet, and their existence is a lot less relevant to us than the existence of microbes. Maybe there isn't life out there. The fact that we've been evolving for billions of years does not imply that the universe should be sprawling with life. Certainly, one would expect intelligent life to be rare, and with the distances involved, even the most intelligent life-forms may not be able, or see the need to, pay us a visit. And your position is what? There is no extraterrestrial life? Or you don't know?Respectfully,-Meldinoor

Hi Flyer, Very true. And something I keep reminding my creationist friends of. Why? Significant maybe if you're a theologian with a poor imagination and a propensity to ask irrelevant questions. Even if God created alien life during a six day creation, he'd hardly be forced to cater to our curiosity. Questions like, "do the aliens sin"? or "did Jesus die for them"? are utterly irrelevant to anyone but the aliens. It may stoke our curiosity, but we really don't need to know. If I might be so bold, that's a remarkably bad reason not to accept the theory of evolution, which doesn't even mention extra-terrestrial life, nor speculate on how such unknown lifeforms evolve! The two are not mutually exclusive. The Big Bang theory (which by the way, was originally a pejorative name coined by opponents of the theory that later stuck) is well evidenced today, and many Old-Earth creationists embrace it because it implies a beginning to space and time.*
Big Bang theory doesn't say anything about extra-terrestrial life either. Slow down brother. How much of this do you know, and how much have you heard from creationist sources? Allow me to dissect what you're saying here.1. "Just a total random kabang..."We don't know what caused the "Big Bang" so we can't possibly know whether it was random or not. Certainly, those who are inclined to believe a supernatural agency caused it would say it wasn't random.2. "The randomness of life only forming here, only here! No where else."This is called Begging the Question, or assuming the initial point. You are assuming there's no life out there, in a discussion about whether there is in fact life out there. You can't use your conclusion as an axiom.
As for whether there is life out there, we don't know. We've only been actively looking for a few decades, and the universe is so vast that even if there were millions of advanced civilizations out there, we'd still be looking for needles in a gigantic haystack.3. "Our planet, set randomly in place by accident in a literal perfect position in ALL of outer space"How do you know Earth is in the "perfect" position? There might be an even more "perfect" position in another spiral arm of the galaxy. Seriously though, with so many planets, is it so amazing that some have the qualities necessary to support life? (And life doesn't need a whole lot in order to function at some level). Is it then so amazing that the life living on such a planet is "perfectly"** adapted to living on it? It's like a puddle of water saying: "My, this hole sure fits me perfectly. It must have been shaped just for me". And both opposing positions are, if I may be so bold, irrational. One can not hold to a position of certainty when there is yet so little known about the requirements for life, and its existence in the cosmos. The best one can do is guess, use some statistical formula like the Drake equation, and hope the numbers are right.Respectfully,-Meldinoor*When the Big Bang theory began to gain acceptance in scientific circles it was opposed by rival theories like Steady State Theory. Steady State Theory basically supposes that the universe has always existed pretty much as it does today. Big Bang theory was thus a windfall for Creationists and others who believed God created the universe in a finite past. The Big Bang theory was at first vigorously opposed by many prominent scientists who were uncomfortable with a beginning and a singularity. Einstein famously threw a "cosmological constant" into his math to remove the need for a Beginning, although he later conceded that it was his "greatest mistake".**I put "perfectly" within a quotation marks since no life form is perfectly adapted to this planet. Most life that has ever lived here has gone extinct. People die all the time because they are not perfectly adapted to the planet. (In earthquakes, storms, floodings ect.)

Hah, good thing you didn't call me an ID/evolution to my face, because I would have punched you and then I'd probably be arrested for assaulting a police officer I'm an evolutionist, as far as the science goes. I don't know where or how God was involved in the creation process (how could I know?), but I believe He is ultimately in charge (and that's a faith position). I resent the ID movement for trying to make the science fit their beliefs and being dishonest about it. But I'll forgive you this once. But let's be fair to the other side. I've never heard an atheist here claim that the universe appeared "randomly", or that life's emergence was utterly "random". They may not believe in an intelligent Creator, but they do believe in a universe that behaves according to certain laws. Laws that happen to be favourable for the development of stars, planets, and life. Some suggest that the universe could be one in a multitude of other universes, each behaving differently, and that it's inevitable that living things like us would appear in one of the universes that allows our existence and ponder the probability of it all.We have to do our best to accurately understand the positions of our opponents, or we will end up fighting strawmen. The universe isn't entirely "random", and neither we, nor atheists make that claim. (They can correct me if I've misrepresented their position). How do you know nothing else was made in His image? And again, why is it relevant to us? I don't care whether Jesus died for extra terrestrials. I don't care if ET is sinful or understands the concept of sin. I don't care if ETs have an afterlife. I don't care whether ET is spiritual or not. It doesn't matter. And even if I did care, God still wouldn't have to tell me.
Heck, I don't know whether Jesus died for the Neanderthals. Would they have had original sin even? See, there's a question closer to Earth, and the Bible doesn't provide us with the answer. Still, Neanderthals existed. If you want, feel free to start a thread about your other reasons and we can discuss them there. I still think the fact that we haven't yet found ETs in our immediate vicinity has no bearing on whether the TOE is truth or not. Au contraire. We have found several candidates for ET life. Several extra-solar planets fall within the habitable zone of their stars, including Gliese 581d. The fact that we won't be getting there in our lifetime to actually see if there is life doesn't change the fact that life could possibly exist there.
Then there's our solar system. The jury's still out on whether there's life on Mars deep down in the martian soil. It certainly isn't impossible. Many extremophilic (extreme loving) life-forms from earth could survive in the martian climate. Then there's the oceans of Europa that some speculate could be home to life. Life has adapted to some pretty harsh environments on earth, that there's no reason to believe it can't exist in similar harsh conditions elsewhere.Respectfully,-MeldinoorEdited by Meldinoor, : Changed "Titan" to "Europa"... Wrong moon. Oops.

I think you're doing well so far. In my experience many (but definitely not all) creationists come here only to spout their opinion and vent their resentment against evolutionists, and not to learn.* So far you seem generally interested in other points of view, and I suspect that's why your member rating is relatively high. (Sadly, creationists often get underrated here, but there's supposedly a new rating system on the way that should eliminate that problem)
Keep it up bro. Okeydokey.Respectfully,-Meldinoor*There are examples of this behaviour on all sides of the debate.