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Author | Topic: Existence | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
Guess I should've read more of his letters, and quotes. We cant all be right and I am obviously wrong, or at least partly so.
"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
Here is yet another paper which discusses relativistic effects on clocks. It would be nice if you could provide some papers/data to support you. All you seem to do is cherry pick bits and pieces of data others provide to try and support your view, ignoring the rest of the evidence that you dont like. Taking things out of context in order to try and support your argument is ...well ineffective at best.
You have been provided a ton of data, in its full, not cherry picked. Can you do the same?? I would like to see specific evidence that gravity is the only effect that needs to be accounted for when dealing with gps, full paper, not something you quote mined. Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given. Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
So I guess you dont believe in relativity either.
The question isn't whether the effects of relativity are negligible. The question is it real,and the answer is yes based on your evidence.
from your link writes: Several relativistic effects are too small to affect the system at current accuracy levels, but may become important as the system is improved; these include gravitational time delays, frequency shifts of clocks in satellites due to earth's quadrupole potential, and space curvature. This system was intended primarily for navigation by military users having access to encrypted satellite transmissions which are not available to civilian users. Uncertainty of position determination in real time by using the Precise Positioning code is now about meters. Averaging over time and over many satellites reduces this uncertainty to the point where some users are currently interested in modelling many effects down to the millimeter level. Even without this impetus, the GPS provides a rich source of examples for the applications of the concepts of relativity. Thanks for more evidence to support my position. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
fizz57102 writes: Hi F&L,As others have pointed out, you've been a bit unfair to me Having done the maths (albeit a long time ago - I'm in a different branch of fizzix now) it's a bit difficult for me not to accept its validity - a scientific theory isn't something you "believe" in after all. And that's the problem with ICANT -hecant do the maths - through laziness, ignorance or sheer bloody-mindedness for all I know - and so doesn't see the inevitability of the conclusions. His only reply is his usual word salad which can be used to "prove" anything - after all, that's how it works in the field he considers to be his speciality! Yes, I apologize, I made a poor assumption. What frustrates me to no end is the denial in the face of overwhelming evidence, I feel one should at least have a basic grasp on a theory before you are going to deny it, and then be prepared with evidence/data to support it. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
I dont think name calling is ever productive, although I sit here and do it, I just dont post it.
I really dont know what else to post anyway, I feel I have provided a ton of credible data, complete with links and even a phone number to the USAF unit that operates the gps system, what more could you ask for?? My biggest shortcoming in life is I have a hard time letting go/ shutting up,it's got me in trouble many times. This whole topic is why I started the " why we dont believe in science" topic, which didn't really go anywhere, but I really didn't expect to hear anything from the creationist camp on it either. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
Taq writes: Where does the second come from? The second, as a unit, is an arbitrarily agreed upon segment of time that can be defined by quite a few phsyical events such as the speed of light, oscillation of a cesium atom, etc. No matter what our units are the speed of light is the same (in a vacuum), as is the rate of oscillations within a cesium atom.
Would it rust out whether the duration of that event is measured or not? Of course. It just so happens that the rate of chemical reactions are consistent so they could, conceivably, be used as a timer if you wanted.
Then you should have no problem in giving a definition for the time that is streached in dilation. The passage of time, no matter the definition as measured by physical interactions, is relative between frames of reference. I defined it in my example with the satellite with the atomic clock. This reminds me of trying to explain rainbows to my niece when she was a child....but why, followed by an explanation...but why....ect. She simply did not have the ability to understand the answers so would've kept asking why til she got bored. I realize this situation is different, it is simply denial...but it seems like It has degenerated to using the " but why "argument to try and support the position. also
SHIFTING THE ONUS OF PROOF: This is when your opponent makes a claim, provides no evidence for it, and then expects you to find evidence of it. Your opponent is making the claim, so he should logically have to provide evidence. Shifting the onus (or burden) of proof to you is a fallacy and a very low tactic to engage in. Often, a Creationist will make phantom claims and, then, act like they are common knowledge and he shouldn't have to back them up. EXAMPLE "The Earth was created in seven days by our loving father""Evidence?" "Oh, come on! Everyone knows this, go look it up, if you don't." That is an example of shifting the onus of proof. The opponent wrongfully forces you to do his research for him. He is obviously too lazy to do it, himself. HOW TO SPOT When your opponent starts treating a claim that isn't common knowledge like it is something everyone should know, and you demand proof, only to have him put that task on you, you are having the onus of proof unjustly handed off to you. HOW TO COUNTER Point out that your opponent is the one making the claim, not you. Demand that he provide evidence or conceed the point on the basis of zero evidence provided. Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Look up dilate, dilation, or dilatation in Wiktionary, the free dictionary. Dilation (or dilatation) refers to an enlargement or expansion in bulk or extent, the opposite of contraction. It derives from the Latin dilatare, "to spread wide". Time dilation, the observation that another's clock is ticking at a slower rate as measured by one's own clock Please show me anywhere it says that dilation can only happen to physical objects, that is what you suggest, now prove it. It seems you want us to prove time is a object you can touch, which it isn't, because you think dilation can only happen to physical objects. Once again you are wrong. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined:
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HI,
In the conclusions section of the paper you presented...
The amount of geodetic precession measured on Gravity Probe B experiment will be 1/3 greater than predicted by the general theory. He was wrong, as seen by the results seen here May 4, 2011: Einstein was right again. There is a space-time vortex around Earth, and its shape precisely matches the predictions of Einstein's theory of gravity. Researchers confirmed these points at a press conference today at NASA headquarters where they announced the long-awaited results of Gravity Probe B (GP-B). "The space-time around Earth appears to be distorted just as general relativity predicts," says Stanford University physicist Francis Everitt, principal investigator of the Gravity Probe B mission. Good source though, not a nut, slightly dated. I only briefly skimmed it but I did see his conclusions and this one was way off. Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
I agree, I hope I can maybe learn a little more also.
"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
Panda writes: I guess you did not read it the last time you presented it to you. Or are you cherry picking your evidence? This is the main reason I haven't participated in this topic for a while, I have posted over 20 times and haven't been able to make any progress. He tries to use evidence that has been provided for him to look at as proof he is right by cherry picking the bits he thinks support his position, while ignoring what he either doesn't understand, or refuses to admit it proves him wrong. This whole topic would make a great paper on the science of denial. It is sad and pathetic that he has been provided evidence from so many people from different backgrounds and no one has even once supported him, that speaks volumes about his ideas. He should've never brought relativity into this topic, that doomed it from start. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
cavediver writes: Oh, ICANT, you have seen through our obscuring mist and revealed the truth that we have so sought to hide: that none of us physicists since Einstein have a clue as to what this relativity is about. We merely esteem Einstein beyond all others and simply hold his ideas and theories as truth. What is terrifying to us is when amateurs with barely any training are able to tie us in knots with their own mathematical chicanery, as you have done here. To be honest, I would much rather retire from this thread before you do further damage to my credibility. I knew you bunch of rotten " Time Dilationist" were lying to me!! Damn scurvy pig-fuckers, you all should be caged up with angry badgers. Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
This is a good example of the light pulse/mirror clock. I presented this in my 4th post or so, should've shown it like this instead of only providing the link.
Hope this example helps a little. Thanks for your explanations, I hope to get a better grasp on the math. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
That makes no sense at all to me. Please clarify.
"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
I am probably less educated formally than you.
I am not sure if you are talking about gravitational lensing or not. Gravitational lensing is covered by general relativity, in fact the predictions made about how much light will be bent are observed many ways, solar eclipse...ect. These same predictions are used to observe black holes indirectly. I just dont see where this "curved line of travel" has to do with what is being discussed here? I guess if you dont think time dilation takes place, essentially what this topic is about, then I have to ask why? Maybe you can support it better than ICANT. This is a long thread, there is a ton of good info on relativity if you got time to review it and follow some links. Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given. Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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fearandloathing Member (Idle past 4175 days) Posts: 990 From: Burlington, NC, USA Joined: |
tesla writes: Define "straight line".
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. When light encounters matter it does not always take a straight line. Does this define straight line? What does this have to due with time dilation? The parameters of the thought exercise have been established in Message 418 andMessage 424 Gravitational lensing has nothing to do with this, or the math involved. "I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson Ad astra per aspera Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
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