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Author | Topic: Scriptural evidence that Jesus is Messiah: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You claim that Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy of Jesus but if you look at it in context it is obvious that it is not.
quote: It's obvious that Isaiah is speak of what will happen immediately. Further Jesus was not named Immanuel. So one of them down and shown to be false. There is a bigger issue. Scriptural support that Jesus is divine or the Messiah is about as valid as the Star Wars tales providing evidence that Darth Vader really is Luke Skywalker's father.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Genesis 12 1-3 is your next supposed prophecy.
Let's look at it.
quote: Sorry, nothing there related to Jesus and in fact, it is talking about Abram; note it says " 3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." It says that it is talking directly about Abram. It's obvious that it is speaking of what will happen immediately; it is speaking about what Abram should do right then. So two of them down and shown to be false. There is a bigger issue. Scriptural support that Jesus is divine or the Messiah is about as valid as the Star Wars tales providing evidence that Darth Vader really is Luke Skywalker's father.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped! |
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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If you think that there is even a single Old Testament prophecy that refers to Jesus can you please give us the Chapter and verse so that we can examine it in context?
AbE: To help you get started we have already covered quite a few in "Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus?". Edited by jar, : see AbE: Link toi existing thread on the topic.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
GDR posting to PaulK writes:
Instead we have a quiet movement that was not revolutionary in the historical sense, whose followers were not members of the established elite and who went quietly to the cross without establishing an army let alone winning any battles. Yet, what happened afterwards has been the root of the largest religion in the world, as far from perfect as it is. I would say that the Gospels had very little to do with Christianity growing as it did, rather being adopted as the State religion of the biggest, baddest super power of the period, and then being adopted by the succession of super powers as their State religion was the greatest factor in that growth. There is much to be said about the influence of wealth and power when it comes to spreading a culture.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sorry Dawn but you have presented absolutely nothing but examples of quote mining, taking phrases out of context and misrepresentation.
I have invited you in the past and will invite you yet again to come to the thread Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? where such claims have been examined in context and shown to be false.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You claim that Isaiah 9 refers to Jesus.
Here is the part you have quoted:
DB writes: Isa 9 [a]Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the nations, by the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan2 The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of deep darkness a light has dawned. 3 You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as warriors rejoice when dividing the plunder. 4 For as in the day of Midian’s defeat, you have shattered the yoke that burdens them, the bar across their shoulders, the rod of their oppressor. 5 Every warrior’s boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel for the fire. 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. Now let's look at it in detail. Where does that refer to Jesus? Start by showing when Jesus ruled on David's throne and over David's kingdom?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But I am not an unbeliever, rather a very devout Cradle Creedal Christian who is very active in the faith, have taught adult and child Sunday school, design and maintain several Christian church websites, helped found Mission and build churches and the product of education in a Christian School.
Even you admit that it is so far failed prophecy if it did refer to Jesus, and that makes it just plain silly.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Kinda. I just don't think that GOD is as picayune as folk like Archangel market it.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Did you say "This aspect of the prophecy has not yet occurred since we haven't come to the end of this Age and entered the new Age"?
If it has not been fulfilled it is failed prophecy. You are of course free to make any unsupported assertions about me that you want; however that does not change the facts that I am a Christian raised in the Christian tradition in a Christian home educated in a Christian school who is active in my faith and has taught both adult and children's Sunday school who has helped establish new missions and build churches and who actively designs and maintains websites for Christian churches. Nor does it address the factual points I have raised where you simply misrepresented what the Bible actually says by taking quote mined phrases out of context.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Where does it say that Jesus sat on David's throne or ruled over David's Kingdom or even the people "Israel"?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I am capable of actually reading what was written in the stories and actually capable of quoting them in context.
And unless you can show where I "deny outright his inspiration" you are simply yet again misrepresenting what I have said. There is no need to know whether or not someone is inspired by God to tell whether or not what the person wrote is quote mining. All that is needed is to honestly read what was written. And of course I know what the Bible says; I read what the Bible says.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Ok, How did you decide and what evidence can you put forward to know they are quote mining. How did you come to the evidential idea that they are not accurate in placing the prophecies in line with Jesus I actually read the Bible, not just what some carny huckster SAYS the Bible says. In fact, I even provided you the evidence which you refused to read it seems. There is a whole thread looking at each of the so called Old Testament prophecies of Jesus in detail, and so far not ONE has stood up to examination. The thread is called Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus?.
IOWs, I have already demonstrated from a Biblical and inspiration standpoint how jesus' is setting on Davids throne. How will you demonstrate it otherwise? Not quite true dat. What you did was post a quote from one of the snake oil salesmen making that claim, but you did not provide any supporting evidence. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I have already done that Dawn, in the thread I have pointed you towards several times. We looked at what the New Testament writers claimed and then looked at the full context of their quote mines and in every case we found that they misrepresented what had actually been written.
AbE: Also you keep claiming that I use "I just don't like it" as a reason or argument. Unless you can provide a link to a post where I used that argument it is just another example of your misrepresentation and posting falsehoods. Edited by jar, : see AbE;Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I provided the link to the material in "THIS" thread so I did include the evidence in this thread. In case you missed it here is the link posted once again in this thread.
Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? Here is the OP from that thread incorporated in this thread.
quote: The point though is that modern Christians are misrepresenting the Bible when they claim that the passage from John refers to the passage from Isaiah or that Isaiah was referring to Jesus. And again, you fail to show that I ever used "I just don't like it" as an argument.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I do not just claim that the authors of the various New Testament writings are quote mining, I demonstrate it by including the context that was written in the Old Testament writings.
That the author of John makes a claim is not evidence of anything except that the author made that claim. To find out if the claim can be supported one must actually look at what was written in the Old Testament story, which I did and even quoted for you. Scriptural support that a New Testament author claimed that prophecies in the Old Testament refer to Jesus is about as valid as the Star Wars tales providing evidence that Darth Vader really is Luke Skywalker's father. Inspiration is irrelevant of course, what is relevant is what they wrote and what they quote mined when seen in context. The writer may well have been inspired, bad burritos can do that. You of course are free to believe anything you want, advance any idea you wish, the question is whether or not you can support those ideas, those beliefs with evidence. Once again I refer you to Message 3, Message 6 and Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? where you will find actual evidence and not just fantasy and supposition. AbE: by the way, the unknown author of 2Peter is not one of the Prophets. Edited by jar, : see AbE:Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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