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Junior Member (Idle past 3496 days) Posts: 28 From: Australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: I don't believe in God, I believe in Gravity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Ringo writes: Ergo, acceptance of Coca-Cola and aerodynamics are different from belief in God. Belief in the existence of God is derived on a wholly different (and far inferior) basis to belief in the existence of Coca Cola or aerodynamic principles. So - Yes. But one doesn't need to invent private definitions of "belief" or "accept" to make that point.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Straggler writes: If one wants to believe things that are likely to be true how does one decide which parts of the bible are helpful and which are a hindrance? jar writes: And you decide which parts of the bible are helpful and which are a hindrance the same way you decide whether anything is helpful or a hindrance. Again it is noted that you feel the need to remove the "likely to be true" stipulation. Which again makes the point that the key difference between belief in gravity and belief in God is the application methods that seek to meet the stipulation. I don't believe in God, I believe in Gravity because I seek to believe things that are likely to be correct rather than wrong...
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Well your contribution to this thread amounts to an idiotic and patently false claim that you are as ignorant as Moses regarding gravitational effects and some semantic nit picking in order to make a "distinction".
And you had the temerity to call me a troll....
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
AZPaul's Angel theory of gravity would be sufficient for many practical purposes too....
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Hey I'm just making a distinction between your understanding of gravity and that of Moses.....
I thought you liked distinctions. Now do calm down.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Given that we are considering why people might believe in gravity but not in God that is an incredibly strange reply.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
I can run about as fast as Usain Bolt compared to the speed of a bullet. But if I were to simply say "I can run about as fast as Usain Bolt" people would quite reasonably point out that this isn't the case unless there is some serious misuse of the word "about" going on.
Ringo writes: I'm making a distinction between concepts. You're making a distinction between numbers. Do you see the difference? Well you've made your distinction and we all seem to agree (even jar eventually) that the reasons people adopt a belief in gravity aren't the same as the reasons people adopt a belief in God.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Straggler writes: If one wants to believe things that are likely to be true how does one decide which parts of the bible are helpful and which are a hindrance? CS writes: Figure out what you mean by helpful, find a way to determine if something is helpful or not, look at a part of the bible, use that way to see if it helpful. You have taken the same route as jar and abandoned the "likely to be true" stipulation. Belief in biblical stories may well be "helpful" in the sense it invokes feelings of comfort or whatever. But so what? Nobody believes in gravity because it gives them a warm fuzzy glow.
CS writes: Do you think it is likely to be true that British imperialism was helpful in improving aboriginal australian art? Could you use the scientific method to determine that? How would you determine it? Well I certainly think looking for empirical evidence of British Imperial influence on Aboriginal art would have to be starting point for even considering such a question. Far more helpful than seeking divine revelation for example. Don't forget it is jar's contention such methods are "totally useless and worthless". Frankly I am bewildered how one would go about answering your question without using empirical methods to discern whether or not there had been any effect at all.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Ringo writes: Moses and I are a lot closer together than I and Stephen Hawking. I still think you still underestimate just how much an understanding of gravity permeates modern thinking in ways that were completely unavailable to Moses. I'd put you somewhere midway between Moses and Hawking. (I did a search for posts by you including 'gravity' and found you asking intelligent questions about the inverse square law - Questions that Moses wouldn't understand but which Hawking could presumably answer)
Ringo writes: You could have saved us all a lot of time by just cheering me in the first place. If it makes you happy I'll do it now.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Straggler writes: If one wants to believe things that are likely to be true how does one decide which parts of the bible are helpful and which are a hindrance? jar writes: We decide which are worth adopting just like we decide about adopting anything else. Anything else except conclusions about gravity, apparently.... You may not have noticed but the bible contains quite a lot of parts about God.
jar writes: Have you no honesty or morality? I have about as much honesty and morality as you do. (See Ringo's use of "about" for further clarification) Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
jar writes: If you wish to believe there is no god then fine. As I think I have stipulated a number of times - The aim is to believe things that are likely to be true. Is this not an aim you also share?
jar writes: But again as I have pointed out to you repeatedly, you use tools and methods appropriate to the specific question. Well I have repeatedly asked you about some of the non-scientifc tools and methods that might be applied to assess the veracity of theological claims (e.g. the very obvious theological claim that God exists). But you have yet to reveal any of these mysterious methods or tools. The closest you got to an answer related to how people's and cultures are formed and youir advice on that was to dismiss the methods of psychology, history, sociology, anthropology, archaeology etc. as "totally useless and worthless" and to instead ask a Rabbi.
jar writes: No when it comes to whether you should believe in god or not, no one really gives a damn. Was that what the Rabbi said?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
You seem to be suggesting that theological claims can be assessed empirically much like theories of gravity can.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Wiki on Epistemology
quote: Given the statement "I don't believe in God, I believe in Gravity" it seems obvious to me that the term "believe" is being used in the second sense.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Straggler writes: You seem to be suggesting that theological claims can be assessed empirically much like theories of gravity can. CS writes: Well that would depend on the claim, wouldn't it? If you say so.... If we want to test the veracity of a theistic claim using these non-empirical methods you allude to how do we do that? Can you give an example of such a theistic claim and the non-empirical method(s) by which you assess it's veracity? AZPaul has provided a baseline example if that helps.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
jar writes: I think it is a pitiful sophomoric question. Well of course you do. Because any assessment of theistic positions which involves determining their veracity causes them to unravel or retreat into ambiguity. Hence the whole "I don't believe in God, I believe in Gravity" thing that is the subject here.
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