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Author | Topic: The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Im just searching for any support and encouragement of why being a Christian is the way to go. Your version seems like hard thankless work. If God simply says NMP, Phat----it does little to encourage me and give me a reason for the increasing amount of suffering happening in my life.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
not so much "whats in it for me" ....more like "God, help me."
My blood sugars are way too high. I fear diabetic complications. I find myself unable to change. Is it wrong to pray for help?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Thanks, Faith. I have listened to John Piper before---he is very passionate about God and speaks of a God of comfort, rather than a God who is unknowable.
I believe in a God who is knowable. Sometimes I think that it is myself whom I need to get to know...and don't know why it is I subconsciously sabotage my own progress in life.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I have a question concerning your theory that attributes much of Christian belief into preservation of "the franchise".
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
OK let me see if I have all of this straight.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: That's certainly an easier sell isn't it? Yes...but i guess im a bit put off by the whole idea that more than a few church folk are selling anything. Of course I can see how a few megachurches and televangelists are selling rather than telling...but the idea that most of mainstream christianity here in the United States...many if not most preach salvation by grace through faith...are willingly selling that promise...is a bit hard to take. Of course, as a Christian I agree with the idea that I am charged to do rather than simply believe. I dont feel that I have to go run out and do do do all the time...such as some Jehovahs Witnesses believe...but I agree in principle that if I do in fact have the mind of Christ it would make sense that I do likewise. And I agree that little things mean a lot. Helping the neighbors....helping people I encounter daily who cant help themselves and who likely cant pay me back. I also agree that in all honesty none of us know for a fact whether we will get to heaven...or if there is even a heaven or a God. I fervently believe that such a God exists, however. You point out that I want this God to help Phat. You are right. I do tend to look at God as having so much more than any of us have...thus why can't He be generous? One thing I don't like about church is that its so hard to be honest there. Its almost like the emperor with no clothes that nobody is supposed to talk about. And I don't want to hurt anyone's faith by busting their bubble...I would be branded an antagonist. My Pastor does a lot of good for the community and he is not a wealthy man. He puts in a lot of time and effort and I respect that about him. Sometimes I get an urge to challenge and debate him, but I fear it would go badly. The bottom line, after all, is helping others....and he does that just fine. The theology is irrelevant.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
To me, church is not a classroom where folks question what they believe--its a place where folks share their belief. Besides...I am unsure at this point what it is exactly that I believe...apart from my unwavering belief that GOD understands...and cares.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes: To me, church is not a classroom where folks question what they believe--its a place where folks share their belief. Besides...I am unsure at this point what it is exactly that I believe...apart from my unwavering belief that GOD understands...and cares. To which jar replies:
Ah yes. The term for that is "Confirmation Bias". That is a big part of the problem. I think that I understand your position. Joe Woods always challenged you to think, but what I'm referring to is the worship service... We both know that the United States suffers from confirmation bias.
jar,in another thread writes: There are some real problems in the US, a lousy health care system, almost non-existent mental health system, an increasing gap between poor and rich, dynamic changes in what jobs are available and a for shit education system, almost non-existent news distribution and education, a large percentage of the population that are totally out of touch with reality and a large percentage of the population that think only in bumper sticker sized bites. And I realize that U.S. charismatic/fundamentalist Club Christian have some real problems with confirmation bias. My point is that a worship service should be a place where people agree--if but a moment---whom it is they are worshiping and singing praises to. After all, you refer to yourself as a cradle creedal christian....surely you dont question the Nicene Creed, do you?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: How can you share it (my belief) if you don't know what it is? Mr. Ringo---as an agnostic, do you still leave a line of communication open should God ever decide to call you?
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Ringo writes: Of course. God could force everyone to acknowledge His presence but it is said that the Spirit is a perfect gentleman. Isn't God capable of ringing the phone even when it's off the hook? Of course I suppose that to a logical mind, He could send a lifeboat, a helicopter and a paramedic should you ever need them. Perhaps the bigger question is whether or not you would recognize the ringtone when He did call you.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Touche
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: What I man is what a person chooses to affirm. Once I affirm that I believe in a Creed, for example, I would be silly to be forever doubting what I had affirmed. Of course we test on a daily basis---"How Do You Know It's God" is a great example...but I don't forever question whether God exists or if Jesus is alive today. These beliefs have been settled. Now....as you have brought up before, if I am honest I know that I could be wrong. I also know that I wont know for sure until at least after I die...barring any miracles. Of course I question the Nicene Creed. It would be pretty silly though for me to one day affirm that I believe in the Creator of all seen and unseen and then the next day question that belief. Of course I suppose if I had terminal cancer and was dying and broke I would likely question it then.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Identifying false religions
jar writes: If there really is a GOD, the creator of all that is, seen and unseen, then that GOD is further from a human than a human is from slime mold. A human has about as much a likelihood of knowing or understanding that GOD as slime mold has of knowing or understanding a human. Except the possibility that that Being may allow for us to understand it. We as humans do not have the power to allow slime mold to understand us...theoretically. The fact that GOD could provide a method or mediation for us to understand Him...if but a little...is quite possible.
jar,talking to Straggler writes: Are you suggesting that the closer we are to claiming to understand GOD, the less it makes GOD out to be? I don't deny that GOD is far beyond our capacity to ever fully understand. I am arguing the idea that we may be able to get a glimpse of how GOD is because GOD allowed the communion to take place. Not because of any understanding we ourselves ever arrived at. The fact that we are unable to understand or even describe something does not imply that that entity does not exist. Now if I laid claim that I could describe, understand, know or actually commune with GOD you might have something. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
so in other words, those who claim to be wise are but fools...while fools who admit they are fools are given wisdom?
When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: I can tell. What I cant do is explain to you what I feel. You seem to be very disrespectful at times also...claiming that I am lying and claiming that I dreamed all this up. Thats your character, though. You have many good traits and a few bad ones. Let me just say though---bad burritos are felt in the intestines and stomach. Not so with the awareness of GOD in us. Have you ever read the Bible, jar? Do you not see where there are reports of men who knew GOD well? How do you differentiate between the Holy Spirit and a Bad Burrito?When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.
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