Windows 8

While the car alarm cannot be turned off, everything about 8/8.1 that people complain about can be turned off. With literally a couple clicks, you can make windows 8.1 look and behave like windows 7.

I find it incredible that a long time member like yourself on a forum that regularly deals with crackpot creationists and strawman arguments have made a strawman argument yourself in this topic.The problem with your argument that I have isn't that windows 8 is meant to be competitive to the mobile platform. The problem I have is you made a jump from being competitive to the mobile platform to mobile platform is not for productivity thus making windows 8/8.1 useless to work. So, after you've made that declaration, every time you say windows 8/8.1 is made for mobile user, the mind of the readers automatically go back to the connection that windows 8/8.1 isn't useful for work. Do you see where I'm coming from or do you want me to explain this point more?What I'm trying to understand is why specifically you think windows 8/8.1 isn't useful. You've made plenty of generalized declarations regarding it just like how creationists make a lot of bold generalized declarations regarding evolution. And you of all people should know that at the end of the day it always comes down to the details.So, let's discuss about the details. What part of windows 8/8.1 do you find make your entire user experience horrid or useless?editFor example, here is a screenshot of my desktop at the moment. Using a keyboard and mouse with this desktop is as standard as any desktop that came before. What's wrong with this desktop that is so horrible? Edited by coffee_addict, : No reason given.Edited by Admin, : Remove image.Edited by coffee_addict, : No reason given.

RAZD writes

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...other software not being able to be run on the newer OS versions, so then your need (to pay for) upgrades for those in a never ending spiral...

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Software incompatibility is another thing that many people often complain about windows 8 on the internet. People really like to say this even though I've found this to be largely exaggerated. As a matter of fact, 8/8.1 has been more backward compatible than any other version of windows I've had.Regarding software compatibility issues with newer versions of OS, this happens with all OS's, not just windows. It's largely not by any purposeful intention. API's are regularly replaced by more efficient API's. For example, I regularly update my software whenever I figure how to do something more efficiently. Just keep this in mind. For every visible thing you see changed to a software, there are 1000 different things unseen that's been updated to run more efficiently.This goes back to the progress I was talking about. It's this kind of force progress that we keep ourselves from becoming stagnant. After all, the command line keyboard-only interface worked just fine without the mouse driven GUI. And indeed, many said the mouse was just a gimmick that would die pretty quickly.

I'm certainly impressed with your responses, mainly how you've diverted our conversation into a popularity contest. Why didn't you say this before?I fully admit that 8/8.1 hasn't been popular. And if this is all you meant to say, then I concede to your point. If you want to say more than this, then why not start giving personal examples as to why you think 8/8.1 isn't productive? More specifically, what's wrong with the desktop environment I screenshotted a little bit up the thread? From your posts so far, one might be fooled into believing that there is nothing in 8/8.1 that would allow the user to use purely keyboard and mouse interfaces.

I don't understand. What is so hard about what I ask for? Just start listing things about 8/8.1 you find that is counter productive and we can discuss about them.You're linking to articles to prove your point, that 8/8.1 isn't useful. But what one finds useful or not is a subjective experience. If anything, I've found that tech writers are absolutely horrid at making judgment calls on what's useful and what's not. Most of them are apple fans anyway, so if it doesn't have an apple logo on there then it's not worth the money. And also keep in mind that they write their reviews based on their very specific experience. It's like me writing a review on how terrible the sport football is because I'm really not a fan of sports.

xongsmith writes

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I started out with Fortran IV, then Fortran 77, then C. I have never liked C++. I have dabbled in Java and javascript. Of them all, C is still my favorite.

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Took me a few months, but I finally managed to work out an equation editor in one of my apps using javascript. I've come to really like javascript. I just love how fast I can crank out a routine once I became familiar with it. Very efficient language.

Hi PercyI noticed that most of what's on your list are hack tools. Yes, it is true that with each OS upgrade, MS has made it harder and harder for people to hack their system. I don't think it's fair to judge an OS based on what you can hack.Regarding upgrading and reinstalling all your tools, again I don't think it's fair to compare PC with MAC. MAC makes their own hardware and software. When they upgrade, they know exactly what drivers and utilities to work with. With windows, how many manufacturers are out there? How many people build their own systems? Take me, for example. Before I got my current device (surface pro 3), I built all my desktop setups. After I got this device, I just gave them all away.

Percy writes:

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What's a "hack tool"?

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You don't consider changing the registry around as hacking?

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With each new release of Windows I'm only trying to do the same thing I could do in previous releases, and I'm not making any judgments about OS's. What i notice in the progression from Windows 95 to XP to Windows 7 is that each new release makes it increasingly difficult for me to maintain the development environment I'm accustomed to and that enables me to be most productive. Given this history my fear of what difficulties future Windows OS's might introduce seems justified.

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No argument from me here.

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Sure it is. PC has its own advantages, such as more applications and earlier availability of new releases of applications. Comparisons are not only fair but essential so that both producers and consumers make intelligent decisions.

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Apples and oranges.Apple only needs to maintain support for the drivers and utilities that they created for their devices. Again, how many PC manufacturers are out there? How many 3rd party hardware and software manufacturers are out there?

Somehow, I doubt Percy's experience has much to do with your complaints.Why not start listing your problems with windows 8 and we can discuss about them?Keep in mind that the vast majority of users are not power users. Changing registry around may be child's play for you, but for most people it's not something they would be inclined to do.For one of my apps, in order for the user to properly use one of the components they have to run a script I wrote that change something in the registry. I really really tried to avoid taking that step. I still consider it as a quick fix and not a real fix. It shouldn't be something taken lightly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is almost all people out there do not use the kind of tools that you use. Jon's original argument is windows 8 is not productive. You seem to be siding with him. I'm just trying to understand what part of 8 or 8.1 that would make people like Jon think the OS is useless. After all, I'm an engineer and an app developer. I use 8.1 everyday and I find it quite useful.If you and Jon want to tell me that I haven't really been productive with 8.1, I need more specific things.

Percy writes:

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I think you might be imagining a different argument than I'm actually making. By way of example, let's say the IDE you like on 8.1 won't run on 10. How might that affect your eagerness to migrate to 10?

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Or here's an example from my own experience. Imagine you have an app, let's call it Answers 1-Click, that allows you to position your mouse over any word on the screen and with one key click bring up a little window box with its definition, and with links that will take you to its thesaurus and Wikipedia pages. Now imagine that you upgrade from XP to 7 and Answers 1-Click no longer works.

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Now imagine that a dozen other tools are also affected in variously severe ways.

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I'm assuming that the migration from 7 to 8 will be roughly just as painful as the migration from XP to 7, so I'm naturally going to avoid it as long as possible. This is a migration issue, not a claim that Windows 8 sucks. Sure, Microsoft sucks, but that's a different issue.

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I've been in agreement with you more than you think. I have always held the position that if you like your current system you should continue to use it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking with xp.What I've been trying to do is get Jon to actually discuss with me on windows 8/8.1 and why he thinks it is useless instead of linking me to blogs, which is little more than hearsay.The next big question is is Jon willing to admit that his anti-8/8.1 sentiment mostly comes from hearsay?Anyway, as for myself windows 8/8.1 has been a godsend. When it first came out and I read how so many people hated it and how horrible it was, I had my reservations with upgrading. Stayed with 7 for a while, actually.Then I started working for a new company and somehow decided that the cosmos wanted me to upgrade. I upgraded my desktop to windows 8. After having worked with it for a week, I said to myself "hey, this isn't so bad. Almost everything I've read online about windows 8 have been a lie!"Software compatibility issues? It's nonexistent for me. I have not found a single software that would not work on 8.As I mentioned before how being specific is a good thing, here are some specifics to why 8/8.1 offered me. I'm a structural engineer specializing in construction management. Have you ever seen someone try to fumble around with the traditional laptop (keyboard and touchpad) out in a construction site? I'm guessing not. Let me tell you that it's a painful sight. 8's touch-centric metro interface works wonderfully when one needs to work on his feet.And back in the office, I can get work done while on the desktop environment, which I have found is pretty much the same experience as windows 7. Everything is still there.See, Jon's argument so far has been how much people don't like windows 8/8.1. I've suspected since the beginning that he's got no real experience with this system and most of what he's said has been hearsay. There's a lot of hate for 8/8.1 floating around on the internet, mostly from misconceptions.As a matter of fact, I see a lot of parallel between hating 8/8.1 and Obama. People seem to hate Obama for made-up fictional things that he supposedly did.Anyway, Percy, if you want to keep all your tools, I don't see a reason why you should upgrade. Just stay with XP or 7, whichever system you are most comfortable with.PS - Jon should be happy to hear that windows 10 is pretty much windows 7.1. There really isn't a touch-centric interface for 10/7.1, so I'm thinking I'll be skipping 10/7.1. He should make sure he reads plenty of hearsay blogs about it.

Just a general reply.While I have not used every OS out there, I've come close to it. I've never had a problem with finding where things are. Each OS is designed by somebody, and I guess I'm good at picking up the intentions of the designer pretty quickly.

I think the vast majority of users really don't care either way. They made the changes, so at some point someone decided that this was a better choice.When I design my app UI, I don't do it because one angry person sent me an email demanding that I do this, this, and that. And yes, I do get these emails from users and potential users demanding that I make the interface their way. I've had a couple threatening to give me a 1 star review if I don't do it.But at the end of the day, I always go with what I think will be best and easiest for most people.I think we are all aware that blogs and reviews are extremely unreliable sources of how people like product design. After all, the people most likely to voice their opinion are people who found 1 thing wrong and have the need to tell the world how dissatisfied they are.When I first started writing apps, I was responding to every suggestion my users made. Then I realized that if I didn't piss off person A, I'd piss off person B. So, when I stopped worrying about every angry email that came in, I actually started getting good reviews.I imagine that every designer of anything have gone through the same phases. First, they worried about every angry review. Then they realized that the only people writing these angry reviews are the .00001% who are angry no matter what. Edited by coffee_addict, : No reason given.

What are you talking about? I said just a few posts away that I think people should stay with the OS that they are comfortable with. Win8/8.1 has been misunderstood, but that's ok.

Haven't used 7 for a while. Win8.1 search function is wonderful, though. But again, as I've said many times, stay with xp if that's what you like.