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Author Topic:   First side effect of the gay marriage ruling
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 8 of 98 (761162)
06-29-2015 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by marc9000
06-28-2015 7:39 PM


The Supreme Court used section one of the fourteenth amendment to justify their ruling for gay marriage, it reads like this;
quote:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Now that gay marriage is legal in all 50 states, doesn't this ruling now mean that ALL states must recognize concealed carry permission, no matter what state issued the permit?
This is a very odd question. The Supreme Court didn't make the Fourteenth Amendment, on the spur of the moment, on Friday, ad hoc, in order to justify gay marriage. It's been in the Constitution since 1868. And its relevance to gun law is, obviously, exactly the same as it was on Thursday. It doesn't become more or less relevant to guns just because someone happened to mention it recently in another case you happened to take an interest in.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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 Message 1 by marc9000, posted 06-28-2015 7:39 PM marc9000 has not replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 22 of 98 (761226)
06-29-2015 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by New Cat's Eye
06-29-2015 1:27 PM


As I understand it, the argument goes that if State Y has to recognize State X's marriage license, because of section 1 of the 14th amendment, then that same precedent also applies to State X's conceal carry licenses and State Y has to recognize it as well.
But this decision was presented by the court as a corollary to the Fourteenth Amendment right to marry:
As counsel for the respondents acknowledged at argument, if States are required by the Constitution to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, the justifications for refusing to recognize those marriages performed elsewhere are undermined. See Tr. of Oral Arg. on Question 2, p. 44. The Court, in this decision, holds same-sex couples may exercise the fundamental right to marry in all States. It follows that the Court also must holdand it now does holdthat there is no lawful basis for a State to refuse to recognize a lawful same-sex marriage performed in another State on the ground of its same-sex character.
So for the same argument to apply to (for example) concealed-carry licenses, you would first need (for example) a ruling that any state must issue a concealed-carry license to anyone who wants one. At that point, it would become possible to point to the precedent of Obergefell v. Hodges and say that in that case the states must recognize each others' concealed-carry licenses.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2015 1:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by NoNukes, posted 06-29-2015 9:32 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 37 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2015 10:03 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 25 of 98 (761247)
06-29-2015 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by marc9000
06-29-2015 8:28 PM


I was just wondering what the first knee-jerk reactions would be from the far left - I got my answers!
By "the far left" you mean anyone who's not a complete moron, yes?
This has been spreading around over the weekend, this evening I found this on FB;
http://www.ijreview.com/...nationwide-legal-experts-weigh-in
The money quote:
This is silly, and it represents not even a cursory understanding of either the Constitution or the judicial process.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by marc9000, posted 06-29-2015 8:28 PM marc9000 has replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 31 of 98 (761255)
06-29-2015 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by marc9000
06-29-2015 9:15 PM


Yes, he looks like the gay one!
To me he looks like a constitutional scholar at a right-wing think-tank.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 34 of 98 (761258)
06-29-2015 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by NoNukes
06-29-2015 9:32 PM


Well of course a state legislature could vote to recognize out-of-state permits, they just couldn't be compelled to do so.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 38 of 98 (761348)
06-30-2015 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by New Cat's Eye
06-30-2015 10:03 AM


Not so much. Illinois requires gun training before it issues a license. Apparently they're allowed to do that: it's not hard to argue that the state has a legitimate interest in doing so. So they can't be obligated to honor licenses from other states that don't require training; just as a state which doesn't allow first cousins to marry doesn't have to recognize such marriages. Obergefell is different: because all states have to allow gay marriage, there couldn't possibly be a rationale for not recognizing gay marriages contracted out of state except sheer cussedness.

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 Message 37 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-30-2015 10:03 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

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