As I Suspected...

To compare BLM to King is to really have no shame.Aside from involving black folk, the two couldn't be more different.

Wanting things doesn't improve the lives of anyone...

Breaking this off from the What's the deal with motor vehicle violations? thread:

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NoNukes in Message 199 in What's the deal with motor vehicle violations?:

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And it is not just traffic stops that are the issue, it is incidents like the shooting of Tamir Rice, and the choking out of Eric Garner that I find problematic. Currently, there is zero motivation for police not to shoot whenever they feel the least bit fearful. And apparently no way to get the city to take you seriously ...

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If these movements want to be taken seriously, a good place to start would be for the people involved in the police 'mistreatment' to not be criminals, thugs, or hooligans.It's hard to get anyone serious to rally behind you when you're boohooing about the police getting a little too rough or trigger-happy with a bunch of crooks and troublemakers.Interestingly, there are examples of police unprovokingly injuring, killing, or harassing completely innocent people:

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"Story of 12-Yr Old Girl Beaten by Cops Mistaken as Prostitute Will Leave You Disturbed" from MemphisRap.com:

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Emily Milburn, Dymond's mother was reportedly getting her kids ready for school for the next day when their electricity suddenly cut off and she sent her daughter Dymond outside to switch the breaker.

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Upon going outside, Dymond was approached by men who jumped out of a blue van, grabbing her calling her a prostitute saying "you're coming with me."

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Resisting, Dymond grabbed onto a tree as the men were pulling her as she yelled "daddy, daddy."

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As the father came out on the balcony from hearing his daughter's cries for help, he saw Dymond being beaten over the head by two men as another man (their supervisor) looked on.

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The men were plain clothed cops that the parents approached yelling, 'that's our twelve year-old daughter' while one cop, officer David Roark had his hand over their daughter's mouth reportedly responding that he didn't care if she was 22 or 32.

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The officers, including Justin Popovich and Sean Stewart, along with their supervisor Sgt. Gilbert Gomez, dragged Dymond Milburn into their van right before her parents' very eyes.

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At some point, obviously realizing their mistake, the police officers dropped Dymond off at a hospital where a physician found multiple injuries to Dymond's head including her face, neck, shoulders, back and other areas.

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Reportedly struck by a flashlight by one of the cops, Dymond also suffered a contusion on the back of her head.

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Dymond had a swollen throat and was hoarse, nauseated and suffered difficulty swallowing due to strikes to her throat.

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So why didn't an event like this prompt days' worth of protesting? Where were the marches in the street? Where were the outcries?For this poor defenseless girl, the outcries were eerily absent. Yet we can't stop hearing about gun-toting Tamir and store-burglar Brown.Black-rights activists of today seem to have the strange habit of standing up for the bad guys and ignoring the good guys. It's little wonder racial divisions are growing wider in this country. Something's gone seriously wrong with the modern civil rights movement. They seem to have lost the moral footing that is required to give legitimacy to social movements.I would imagine MLK's rolling over in his grave.

The point is not that you can't or shouldn't demand rights for potential criminals; the point is that it is oddly suspect to only demand rights for those people while ignoring the rights of completely innocent twelve-year-old girls to walk outside without being beaten half to death by police who think she's a hooker despite knowing ahead of time that they were looking for white women.The decision to protest in the names of folks such as Tamir Rice or Michael Brown while hardly having a word to say about poor Dymond Milburn speaks to the underlying values of the BLM movement: that thugs who wave guns around in a park or refuse to follow basic laws matter more than completely innocent children.The case of Dymond Milburn is such a clear example of police racism and vicious brutality, yet it is not for her sake BLM protests. Over her there is silence.But that's no surprise and is as I suspected, since it's clear to any reasonable observer that BLM is just a clever cover for hooligans and thugs, people who cannot even imagine identifying with someone like Dymond and are really only interested in protecting their own anarchist subgroup of the population who glorify lawlessness and resistance to everything decent.To try to equate or connect such people to MLK is shameful.

Of course, blame someone else. But blaming someone else won't lower the inordinately high crime rates that plague African American communities Blaming someone else won't un-rob convenience stores; it won't un-bust up car dealerships; it won't un-wave a gun around in a public park.Racist oppression is not what is causing the high crime rate amongst African Americans.African Americans are committing more murders today than in 1975 (though it's down since a huge spike in the '80s and '90s). (Bureau of Justice Statistics pdf)In the middle of the twentieth century, African Americans made up a little less than 30% of the incarcerated population; by the turn of the 21st century the number had risen to 40%. Decades after the Civil Rights movement and the dismantling of Jim Crow and we are still dealing with high crime and incarceration rates amongst African Americans.What's more, the racial discrimination of policing that you imply doesn't exist.

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"Police Kill More Whites than Blacks" from Washington Times:

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Based on that data, Mr. Moskos reported that roughly 49 percent of those killed by officers from May 2013 to April 2015 were white, while 30 percent were black. He also found that 19 percent were Hispanic and 2 percent were Asian and other races.
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But also adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown in violent crime, the data actually show that police are less likely to kill black suspects than white ones.

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"If one adjusts for the racial disparity in the homicide rate or the rate at which police are feloniously killed, whites are actually more likely to be killed by police than blacks," said Mr. Moskos, a former Baltimore cop and author of the book "Cop in the Hood."

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Racist oppression is not what is causing the high crime rate amongst African Americans. There's something else going on; something that desperately needs to be discovered and addressed. Something that waving around sociology slogans and protesting in the streets over dead criminals won't fix. I invoked nothing; I was responding to your invocation earlier in the thread.Your repeated attempts to draw a connection between BLM and MLK are not only erroneous, but sad and disgusting.The modern civil rights movement is failing the black folks it is meant to help, and black leaders and those in a position to do something about it need to have the courage to admit this.

You'll note, and the record proves, that I didn't blame anyone.The only one interested in passing around blame instead of solving problems is you. The percentage of overall population isn't what matters; it's the percentage of representation in the criminal population.The truth is that the police aren't going around shooting random black people just for fun; nor are they going around shooting random white people just for fun. The shootings happen in the context of criminalor suspected criminalbehavior, and when you adjust for those figures, when police get themselves into a sticky situation with white people they are more likely to shoot the suspect than when they get themselves into a sticky situation with black people. I never said they were. I said that crime is a bigger problem in black communities than it is in white ones. And that's true. And that's a flat-out lie. The percentage of the prison population that is black continues to rise even as old-style racism is becoming an endangered species. Unless you think there was less 'systemic racism' back in the days of Jim Crow, the fact that you could consider racism as the driving factor behind the rising black prison population is baffling.As I have said a number of times now, racism is not the cause of the disparities between white and black life achievement, and black folk agree (last question): The same percentage of African Americans who recognize their poor position in life also do not attribute this to racism.And this should come as no surprise, since black people are well aware of the fact that white-against-black racism is not the problem it used to be. In fact, a larger percentage of blacks now consider blacks more racist that whites:

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"More Americans View Blacks As Racist Than Whites, Hispanics" from Rasmussen Reports:

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Among black Americans, 31% think most blacks are racist, while 24% consider most whites racist and 15% view most Hispanics that way.

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And empirical evidence bears this out; African Americans are more likely to commit 'hate crimes' than white Americans (remember that whites comprise roughly 78% of the U.S. population, and blacks 13%):

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Wikipedia on Race and Crime in the U.S.:

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According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Report database, in 2010 58.6% of hate crime offenders were white (including Hispanics), 18.4% of offenders were black, 8.9% were of individuals of multiple races and 1% of offenders were Native Americans.

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This is the true reality of racism in America. Racism against blacks is at levels lower than ever before, to the point that the trend of black racism against whites is overtaking white racism against blacks, yet the lot of African Americans continues to be poor and in many cases worsening.The logical conclusion to draw from this is that racism is not at the heart of the white-black achievement gap in the U.S., meaning that even if you got rid of all the racism among whites, it would only make a dimple of a difference in the life achievement gap between white and black Americans.The black community doesn't need your white guilt or your 'help' in fighting imagined racism. What disadvantaged African Americans need are real solutions with real impact on the real problems they face.Your approach is just old, tired, and ineffective. Your intentions may be good, but the evidence overwhelmingly shows they are misguided.Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

If you think fighting racism is going to have a significant impact on the lives of African Americans, then prove it.As you know, I've already started a thread where you can lay out your argument with all your evidence and logic.This thread is specifically about BLM and is not the place to make the argument you're trying to make.

The other thread's open, Rrhain, whenever you're ready to lay down some numbers.