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Author Topic:   Working Conditions and Benefits
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 57 (776134)
01-09-2016 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
01-09-2016 4:58 AM


Do you US guys look at us Europeans with envy?
I don't know if envy is the word, but it is obvious that Europeans enjoy a lot more holiday time. Additionally, because European countries are in close proximity to one another, it is not only easy to access multiple countries, but it is also much cheaper. Because Americans are locked in by two huge oceans, leaving the US to go anywhere outside of North America is difficult and expensive.
Added to this, Americans on average are compensated with a lot less time off, which means taking extended vacations pretty difficult.
Do you think we are a bunch of lazy slackers?
I know the Spanish concept of a "siesta" is considered bizarre and lazy by a lot of Americans, but I'm not sure that most Americans would think this way. I think the European system is better. I think it is healthier and will actually increase productivity to have more time off. Americans work too much and as a result, we are burned out.
Do the Europeans think the American way is the way of the workaholic?
We think the Japanese are workaholics, which is probably true, but we aren't much better.
And aren't we all in the developed Western nations heading down the American path of longer hours, less leave and less employment rights anyway (flexible labour market being the term used here in the UK)
I don't know. But as long as there are American conglomerates that do not value the health of its workforce and try to maximize profits, it is certainly possible.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 57 (776184)
01-09-2016 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
01-09-2016 9:36 AM


This is fairly recent and a result of ALEC "Right to Work" laws (which is orwellian speak for right to fire at any time with no reason).
At-Will states need written documentation to fire someone. They legally can't just fire you for no reason.
By cutting union rights, installing fire at will legislation, and sending jobs to foreign soil the corporations effectively leave workers doing the same job for less pay. That boosts profits but not productivity.
It could be argued that parasitic Union jobs are one of the reason why jobs are outsourced. Corporate greed being the other.
But if you compare how the Japanese automaker market is doing within the US versus domestic manufacturers, the unionized US workers are paid slightly more but the Japanese are outcompeting US car makers and offer more job stability and less layoff's.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 57 (776566)
01-16-2016 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by LamarkNewAge
01-13-2016 7:03 PM


Re: think you know what socialism really means?
If we had straight "welfare" (say $200 a month cash payment for anybody out of work),and the constitutional right to shelter, then people would be in good enough shape to get up off their feet pretty quick.
Do you mean that the welfare system is so generous that it enables them to sit back and collect an easy check and offers no real incentive to find more work?
I'm not in favor of spending money on hotels, but I am in favor of a constitutional right to shelter.
Well, it's not a constitutional right, so you would have to create another Amendment. On what basis do you think that free housing be supplied and do you know how expensive that would be to house every human being in your country?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 57 (776567)
01-16-2016 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by anglagard
01-15-2016 10:33 PM


Re: Minimum wage
Because the minimum wage is far less than a living wage, the greatest amount of welfare does not go to those most in need but is rather is devoted to corporate welfare for those least in need. This is due to the rapidly disappearing middle class in the USA being forced to subsidize minimum wage workers with various anti-poverty programs such as food, heating, medical, and housing assistance for which they are taxed at around 30% of income from honest labor while the rich like Mitt Romney brag about an effective tax rate of 15% of their income (if even that), including the cost of bribing immoral and unethical politicians, on their so-called investment income in the Cayman Islands.
I think we're asking the wrong questions and pushing the wrong initiatives to ensure people have decent lives.
I'm always amazed how few people see inflation as the real enemy here. You can always pay people more money, and still inflation will outpace "a living wage." So why do we continue with this fiat currency that is constantly depreciating instead of creating a much more stable form of currency that remains largely static?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 57 (776595)
01-17-2016 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by LamarkNewAge
01-16-2016 8:35 AM


Re: think you know what socialism really means?
Take the $100 billion home mortgage deduction (just for 1 year) and build enough "bunk houses" so that enough can be built that there will be a 100 million person capacity. I say let the rich or poor have the option of paying for a bunk-house. No paper-work, no b.s.
You said you wanted it to be a constitutional right, which means everyone will be supplied with a flop house, I mean, a bunk house. So why would anyone be purchasing these tiny houses?
Also, if rich people are allowed to buy them then that implies they also have the luxury of buying all of them, selling them, and marking up prices to fleece the poor.
You would also have the problem of creating ghettos on a scale reminiscent of the Bowery slums, because no one would want a bunk house. They would only do it out of necessity. And poverty and crime go together like butter on toast. If we look at government intervention now, a la Section 8 housing, you have atrocious living conditions and rampant crime. Now extrapolate that disaster a few million times.
The housing scam is the worst scam going. I can't think of anything (non social issue related)worse - from an economic perspective. Most scams force scarcity in an unnatural way, and this is the worst.
The housing market is terrible, but I'm failing how to see dropping miniature homes all over the place is somehow going to reverse that. You will still have people who desire more for themselves, and as such you will still have a class divide. Actually, it may even exacerbate the class divide.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-16-2016 8:35 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-17-2016 10:45 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 57 (776596)
01-17-2016 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by RAZD
01-16-2016 8:49 AM


Re: What's the purpose?
Indeed. There are so many programs that seem to be band-aids rather than a comprehensive plan. Unemployment, Food Stamps, Disability, Affordable Housing, Subsidized Housing, Social Security, Health Care, etc etc etc
What we are basically talking about is a base standard of living for everyone, yes?
That's a fine goal to aspire to, but what kind of plans would you implement it to make it become a reality?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 57 (776598)
01-17-2016 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by NoNukes
01-16-2016 2:49 PM


Re: Minimum wage
The problem is not inflation which actually assists people because it allows paying debts with cheaper money
And as save money for retirement, the value of that dollar is constantly devaluing so that a $500K retirement today might be a $250K (or less) retirement amount if we compare 2016 dollars to 2036 dollars.
Inflation affects the cost of living which almost always outpaces annual raises. That is problematic for people who cannot make yearly raises that are commensurate with inflation rates.
So let's look at California as an example. The wages are higher in some sectors of business to cover the exorbitant cost of living. But what you end up getting is gentrification and a mass exodus of people fleeing the state and heading to cheaper places.
So if we were to force businesses to pay everyone more money, should Walmart employees in California make more than a Walmart in the Research Triangle of North Carolina?
What if we stabilized the purchasing power of the dollar so that we have apples to apples and not apples to oranges?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 57 (776655)
01-18-2016 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by LamarkNewAge
01-17-2016 10:45 AM


Re: think you know what socialism really means?
I'm using my phone, so I won't be using quotes. I will just address your points in chronological order.
The scarcity of personal homes are supplied with apartments and lots of them.
As for barracks for homeless people, they often don't use it even when it is available because fights, drugs, thievery, unclean living conditions, etc are rampant in places like that. The homeless go where the money is, and panhandling at a good intersection is incredibly lucrative. Many homeless people prefer homelessness, believe it or not. It's a simpler life with a lot less responsibility and a lot less debt.
My issue is with the Constituitonal right you mentioned since it implies that everyone should have access to it. What do you do for homeless people far outside of city limits in small towns? Houston is a major metropolitan center, but what about nowhere North Dakota?
Secondly, where does it end? All people need shelter to survive but they also need sustanence. Should it be the responsibility of the federal government to supply food to every American because it should be an inherent right?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 57 (776669)
01-18-2016 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by NoNukes
01-17-2016 2:15 PM


Re: Minimum wage
Just paying people more is a short term solution, and how does one go about that anyhow? The inflation rates are low now at about .5 but they were as high as 3.8 at the height of the recession which is not just bad for the impoverished but everyone. If interest rates were static and stable, everyone would fare better in the long term.
Washington state increased their minimum wage and there unemployment rate is also 15% higher than the national average and according to one study found it to be 42% higher than before they implemented it. Many economists warned that a correlation exists between raising the minimum wage and unemployment rates.

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 57 (776670)
01-18-2016 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by RAZD
01-17-2016 3:14 PM


Re: What's the purpose? And how do we pay?
Police and home security systems are anti-social? Can you elaborate?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 57 (776715)
01-19-2016 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by RAZD
01-18-2016 11:57 AM


Re: What's the purpose? And how do we pay?
Yes. Instead of helping, supporting and uniting people, their purpose\goal is to suppress, isolate and divide people -- we have the largest prison population per capita of the developed nations because of this.
That's because the jail/bail/prison system is viewed with business interests so they lock people up for minor things. It is a problem, I agree.
People will do anything to survive, and if the means are not available to do it lawfully, then they turn to criminal means: stealing, fraud, etc. Police then reacts to this to suppress "crime" -- treating the symptom and not the cause.
Yeah, but most people don't steal things or resort to crime so they can get food to eat. They do it because free shit is better than paying for it or they have some kind of addiction to support. There's not too many cases of people stealing loaves of bread for their hungry children but there are plenty of cases of people stealing cars and stripping them for parts.
Minimum wage was increased here from ~50% of a living wage to ~60% ... not a big help in reducing poverty imho.
What we DO see is a reduction in the use of SNAP (food stamps) by people with higher minimum wages.
Again, it is a matter of how we pay for basic standards of living, because we do end up paying one way or the other.
I definitely agree with that last statement. Either we pay more in SNAP or we pay more income. But isn't this substituting one problem for another? The U.S. Congressional Budget Office reports that raising the national minimum wage can and does result in the loss of jobs.
Source: The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income | Congressional Budget Office
As of now, 1 in 7 Americans are on SNAP. If there was a national increase in minimum wage, we could see that ratio double or even triple.
That's my concern.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : Edit to add

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 57 (776716)
01-19-2016 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by RAZD
01-18-2016 12:05 PM


Re: Minimum wage or living wage?
The simplest way would be a minimum annual living cost benefit, run as part of the IRS tax structure, and replacing minimum wage, unemployment, food stamps, welfare, social security, etc. etc.
Indexed to cost of living -- everyone gets a weekly check, monthly check or annual check\tax deduction, depending on your choice.
Wages above that would be earned additional income, and employers could offer anything from 1 cent/hour up, but they would have to pay enough to make it attractive to the worker.
I'm not sure I understand the concept fully. Are you referring to an Earned Income Tax Credit that can be done annually, monthly, or bi-weekly?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by RAZD, posted 01-18-2016 12:05 PM RAZD has replied

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 57 (776717)
01-19-2016 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Tangle
01-18-2016 3:22 PM


Re: What's the purpose? And how do we pay?
I don't think the USA allows people to starve on the streets unless they are rejecting help? Most low level theft isn't to survive, it's to support drug and alcohol addiction.
I think it's a stretch to suppose that higher beneits or that increasing minimum pay rates would reduce crime given that basic needs are met. The evidence is rather against it - in the last recession crime rates fell.
I agree. Crime and recidivism is a complex issue. I think the assumption is that there is a clear trend between rates of poverty and rates of crime that appear to not only correlate but appear to have a causal relationship. But why there is a relationship is really complex and cannot be explained solely by economics. There are a ton of social factors at play as well (addiction, childhood trauma, bad parenting, de-sensitivity to crime, poor education, lack of opportunities, etc). Money plays a role, I wouldn't discount that, but I think it's too simplistic to assume that paying people more money would necessarily result in an appreciable drop in crime.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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