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Author | Topic: Is The World Getting Better Or Worse? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm only sixteen minutes into it and so far I don't have a problem with most of what he's said. I don't doubt the warming trend, I doubt its causes and whether there is really anything we can do to affect it. So his documenting the wwrming trend is not a problem.
But now at 16.33 on the counter he's got this chart up showing the warming trend over the last thousand years and I'm having a horrible time figuring it out. Overall it looks like a general trend over that thousand years, but more noticeably since about 1350, all of it before human industrialization. The most recent rise probably includes the Asian increases but so far he hasn't differentiated any of it. There's a lot of bouncing around in the recent era. Well maybe he'll get around to breaking it down. I can't post it because it's a film on Amazon but maybe I'll be able to find the chart somewhere.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Stop with the empty assertions.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
A report directly from the US EPA is not really an empty assertion.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You added the quote after I'd responded.
All you do is assert blindly that our input is "major" and the quote you post about how it's human activities that are responsible for the increase over the last 150 years is also a bare assertion. Gore's chart in his film that shows the warming trend over the last thousand years shows that it's been pretty general over that time. There's an increase in most recent times but I'm still trying to figure out what it means. And there is nothing in the EPA quote that connects our emissions to the warming trend, and it says nothing comparing us to other nations.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It's not a bare assertion Faith, it's a summary meant for the population unwilling to actually read the tens of thousands of pages of data.
Again, the only parts the US can control are the parts we produce. If other nations do produce more that simply means we must reduce our contributions even more. The effects Faith will not stop at borders and will be universal. The US could do more by actually approving the international treaties and then ratifying them. Sorry Faith but what you believe really is simply irrelevant.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What I believe probably isn't relevant because you're all going to cram your interpretation down our throats no matter what the truth is.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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The last numbers I can find says the earth will not be able to support life after 1 billion years. That means the temperature has to be rising now. But they will rise faster as time progresses. All very true, almost. In about 500m years this orb will be a bit toasty for human comfort as the oceans begin to evaporate from the increased solar gain. From there it gets worse while this beautiful blue ocean world of ours becomes a Venus v.2.0. Add another 6b years and our long dead planet may be orbiting well within the corona of a red giant star, but not for too long as the Earth is stripped layer by layer like an onion of all its matter. Of course we have looked at sun cycles and the sun's properties to see if this is in any way responsible for the warming we see today. Here is a good article. The sun's influence is too variable. The variations do affect our planet's climate but we have to look over a span of hundreds of millennia to see even the slightest effect. And we can see the effects both up and down. Right now, and for many millions of years in the future, so the science indicates, solar radiation is a negligible player and is as apt to lessen our solar heat gain as increase it over spans of hundreds of thousands of years. So, no, solar activity is not/will not be a contributor to our global warming problem in the next 10,000 years and, yes, solar activity will burn us up bad ... eventually. In the meantime the question is whether we do anything to lessen our coming man-made apocalypse or if we just kill so much more of our future population. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 7.0
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AZPaul writes:
All very true, almost. In about 500m years this orb will be a bit toasty for human comfort as the oceans begin to evaporate from the increased solar gain. From there it gets worse while this beautiful blue ocean world of ours becomes a Venus v.2.0. Add another 6b years and our long dead planet may be orbiting well within the corona of a red giant star, but not for too long as the Earth is stripped layer by layer like an onion of all its matter. But couldn't the humans gently tug it out of the way by orbit disturbances from large asteroids? Make it a museum? Then after the sun finishes and shrinks back to a small dwarf, tug it back?"I'd rather be an American than a Trump Supporter." - xongsmith, 5.7d
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Physically, it could be done. A largish asteroid on a 10k year orbit passing about 30k km from the Earth could be used to gently nudge the planet out into a farther orbit from Sol over many millions of years.
The problem is the investment of time and technology required to keep the asteroid on path and not, like, crash into us, would need to be constant over those millions of years and you just know the System Interplanetary Senate would cut off funding in favor of capital gains tax cuts for the 1% when the Inner Planet Republican Party came to power. Besides, Earth would by then just be a useless chunk of hot rock with a dwindling population when all that hydrocarbon on Jupiter was just sitting there waiting to be mined and sold to the Asteroid communities. Gotta have priorities, xongsmith. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Even though they have a friend in the Oval Office the folks at Big Carbon are upset because the agenda that bought and paid for is not being implemented in the administration.
Seems the Trump folks are too incompetent to implement the Big Carbon policies properly and keep getting the regulatory hurdles all wrong.
Oil industry ripping into Trump administrationEschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation. |
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The challenge is to stop the madness that is current Conservatism and Neo-Fascism and spend our wealth on improving the general quality of life. Really? How are you gonna do it? More taxes? That will go over like a lead balloon. the people are in debt enough as it is. We don't want to spend more on anything that puts us in long term debt beyond where we already are. I don't care if it saves the planet or not...if it costs too much, we won't vote for it. This wealth that you claim we have has already got a lien on it.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Would it be possible for you to quote the most relevant parts of that site? Why not, I've got a few minutes.
This site Greenhouse Gasses
quote: Carbon Dioxide
quote: quote: Methane
quote: quote: The real scientific evidence is in the notes. Too much for this treatment. If you want them they are in the document. Edited by AZPaul3, : added siteEschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Thugpreacha writes: Really? How are you gonna do it? More taxes? That will go over like a lead balloon. the people are in debt enough as it is. We don't want to spend more on anything that puts us in long term debt beyond where we already are. I don't care if it saves the planet or not...if it costs too much, we won't vote for it. Republicans have voted for $20 billion in subsidies for big oil companies. That's 20 billion of your tax dollars going to oil companies right now, per year. Do you still vote for Republicans that support these subsidies?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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estimated percentages of atmospheric gasses the human factor can be very shaky. Only to those who do not understand the science, do not want to understand the science or have some ulterior motive against the science. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Really? How are you gonna do it? More taxes? That will go over like a lead balloon. the people are in debt enough as it is. We don't want to spend more on anything that puts us in long term debt beyond where we already are. I don't care if it saves the planet or not...if it costs too much, we won't vote for it. Very likely. Yet Phat, the debt WILL get paid.
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