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Author | Topic: Is The World Getting Better Or Worse? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I agree. This is also a line of reasoning I would use. Critics call it an Appeal To Popularity but screw the critics.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: This is also a line of reasoning I would use. Critics call it an Appeal To Popularity but screw the critics. Okay, let's use it. About one third of the religious people in the world are Christians; two thirds of the world's religions people are not. The vast majority of Christians are Roman Catholic. By popularity Christianity loses. By popularity Protestantism loses.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
But if the claim was that the target was hit it is evidence that the target was not hit. Then I'd guess that saying "absence of evidence is evidence of the absence of evidence" and not saying that the target was hit, would be a good thing. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
RAZD writes:
If it is not known, it is not evidence.
so evidence that has not yet been discovered is known?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
LamarkNewAge writes:
As far as I know, they were visible and even tangible, to the point of fathering children.
Did the Greek Mythological stories say that Zeus & the Titans were observed to walk on Earth by the larger population? LamarkNewAge writes:
There's no reason to think they were unknown.
Were the Sons of God in Genesis 6 unknown by the world? LamarkNewAge writes:
If there is evidence of their existence, we should be aware of them. Otherwise, we can laugh at them as fiction.
Should we be aware of these "Fallen Angels" and their offspring (not just "in those days" but "after") or will they simply be laughed at as fiction? LamarkNewAge writes:
Does it? Or has that doctrine been superimposed on it?
The "New Testament" has "faith" as a major issue... LamarkNewAge writes:
I'll point out what I keep telling Phat: In John 20, Jesus offered concrete evidence to the disciples and than He offered the same evidence to Thomas.
...so I suppose that throws out the apparently visible....
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: OK, finish your analogy. Who *wins*? By popularity Christianity loses. By popularity, Protestantism loses. I might point out that Christianity has always been a religion that focuses on the few rather than the many. Judaism was and is the same way. The majority of people will reject the message. My point, if I can defend it, was that it appeared that among those who had a conversion experience, most were Christians. You guys might ask to see proof or otherwise dismantle that argument so I stand on the sidelines watching... Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Tangle Member Posts: 9517 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes: I might point out that Christianity has always been a religion that focuses on the few rather than the many. Right, heaven is an exclusive club, sssshh, don't spread the good word...stop those missionaries, cancel the leaflets
My point, if I can defend it, was that it appeared that among those who had a conversion experience, most were Christians. That's a point?
You guys might ask to see proof or otherwise dismantle that argument so I stand on the sidelines watching... Oh come Phat, you know it's bollox, why are you wasting our time?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: The majority of people will reject the message. What message?
Phat writes: My point, if I can defend it, was that it appeared that among those who had a conversion experience, most were Christians. Really Phat. You have evidence that more people that have a conversion experience choose Christianity than Islam or Taoism or Hinduism or Buddhism or ...?
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
I said:
quote: Ringo asked:
quote: I will avoid parsing the New Testament (which did not exist during the first century, and only came to be FOR EUROPEAN CHRISTIANS in the period roughly from 140-180, while Aramaic speaking Christians were not about to begin to drink the cool-aid until a bit later) into its separate parts. I will just say that Jesus definitely did not teach the "faith" that churches teach everywhere. He did teach the mustard seed thingy though, but it is a monstrous imposition for a 21st century preacher to read today's "faith" doctrines into whatever Jesus was (briefly) talking about.
quote: As a whole, the Gospel of John is hardly a reliable witness to much Jesus said or did, though parts could be "somewhat" historical. But your point is well taken.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I'm assuming, for the sake of argument, that you label yourself more of a descendant of Aramaic Christians. That whole Zoroaster thing. Comments?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Good point. What message? You may argue that the message is that we are charged to do what Jesus said. Feed the hungry. Clothe and shelter the homeless. Encourage the destitute. Which I will agree is part of the message. Apologists may say that the message is that while we were still sinners, Jesus died for us. You will argue that the story should focus on Jesus' life rather than his death, burial, and resurrection. So I agree...which specific message?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
quote: I have trouble convincing people that things have changed a lot since the days of the founders (of the various religions). I don't really know what exactly Zoroaster actually taught. It seems he actually did have a problem with animal sacrifices (due to the suffering), so that it all I can say for sure. I kinda like him, whoever he actually was. I don't assume that too many of his followers really "know him", though. (Overall, they might "get him" better in India than Iran, ironically, but that might have more to do with Hindu and, perhaps, Theosophical, influences) (Today's Aramaic Christians simply follow the European religion, BUT what a treasure trove it would be to find some actual cache of documents from before 180. It would shake the earth.)
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
BUT what a treasure trove it would be to find some actual cache of documents from before 180. It would shake the earth. What do you suspect that we would find? How would it change the consensus of Western Christianity?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There is no consensus of Western Christianity.
How would it change the consensus of Western Christianity?
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
If so, then finding the original documents would likely have no effect.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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