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Author | Topic: Charismatic Chaos | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Why are there any conversions at all? Does one god stop speaking and another start?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Given all that made up nonsense, how can a conversion away from Christianity to another religion be possible? Which god is speaking the loudest?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Faith writes: It's amazing how such a complete system of thought can be accused of being made up, but you guys have to find something wrong with it. A system of thought, is, by definition, made up.
There is no conversion to any other religion, no actual change as there is in Christianity. They say there is.
People choose other religions but they don't convert in the sense I'm describing. There's only one true God, the God of the Bible. They say different.
Take it or leave it, Tangle, I left it.
I'm telling you what I know but you don't have to accept it. You can always make up whatever you want, assume I'm just partisan etc. You're telling me what you believe and what you've made up and simply denying what others say about their conversions. Why should I accept what you say? You're so provably wrong about everything else, why should anyone accept your story as correct?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Faith writes: ...there is no real faith in other religions. They are all lies. All science is wrong, all other faiths are lies, all other Christians are false but somehow you got it right. I'm done with you for this year at least.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes: Why is the concept of angels so glaringly illogical? Do you really need to ask that? Why would god need angels? More stupidly, why create a bad one?
And why is the idea that one of them would decide to drink his own Kool-Aid rather than the corporate version so preposterous? This is so childish ... why would an angel in heaven - the most perfect and happiest place imaginable - want to change anything? Don't you think it possible that this is just all anthropomorphised? Can't you see that it's just a folk myth? There's nothing god-like about any of this stuff. It's all totally human.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Ah, don't tell me he made a ring to bind the darkness but lost it and it was found by a hobbit with big hairy toes
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes: If anyone can imagine a Klingon they can surely imagine a Spirit Being who sends an anthropomorphized rep to the planet. Yes Phat, they can and did imagine a Spirit Being, and talking snakes, angels and devils, war in heavens etc etc etc. That's the point, it's all obviously human imagination, mystical thinking and story telling. There's nothing remotely god-like about any of it.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
It reads exactly like fiction. Exactly. There's nothing in the bible that *couldn't* have been written by people alive at the time it was written.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes: Star Trek, a fantasy that inspired a generation of future scientists, was a story where humans tried to do their best and overcame many seemingly insurmountable challenges without the help of any God. I do not have an optimistic outlook on the future of humanity without God. Says who? You? Seemed pretty optimistic to me. For a start there *was* a future, unlike your lots persistent claim that the end of the world is nigh and daily doom laden prophesies. They always put things right and win the day.
bottom line is that we collectively need further lessons. Says who? You?
Seeing us as simply evolving animals with no help from God is depressing. To you.
I fear we will fail. Perhaps this shows one of my own human flaws---that I have always relied on help my entire life to get out of the worst jams---many of which I myself created. Perhaps I would have been better off if nobody ever helped me. More doom and whinging. For god's sake Phat get a grip.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Pure contentless blather.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Tangle writes: The One whom you deny exists and existed listens to my prayers, sob stories, and whining and often gives me an insight that I would never expect. So how come you're so bloody miserable and unhappy with your life? I don't have the help of the almighty to keep my pecker up, so how is it I'm doing less whining?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Hyro writes: Thanks for setting the example... imagine the moral outrage had you said "blacksplain." But you won't get any backlash here at EvC for it because its not racist to be critical of white people on account of their whiteness. Actually, he pissed me off with that too. It doesn't seems like a strategy with much chance of succeeding - behaving like the thing you accuse others of.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Theo writes: Is your white privilege being attacked? Not at all, sticks and stones etc, isn't that the point of white privilege, that we're above all that crap? No, it just pisses me off that you're going to make it worse just as I thought equality and diversity was making progress.
There is no such thing as blacksplaining about racism. Maybe you do not understand what whitesplaining is. You need to understand what you're doing when you use racist terms when you're trying fight racism. Don't you see that you doing exactly what you accuse others of?
I am not sorry it made you mad or uncomfortable. Maybe it will cause you to do a little research and introspection as to why the word exists and why minorities and people of color take offense at it. I understand why people take offence, that's why you and no-one else should do it.
I love how white privilege makes people go to the rationalization that pointing out racism or calling people out on discriminatory actions and behaviors is itself racism. Don't you get racism at all? Calling me 'white privileged' in that way is identical to me calling you whatever epithet you don't enjoy hearing and object to. How do you think that's helping?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Theo writes: Whitesplaining and white privilege are not racist terms. Of course they are, they are terms that target individuals because of the colour of their skin and only because of the colour of their skin. and are applied to all those of that skin colour indiscriminately. It's the definition of racism.
Me pointing out racism is not a racist act no matter that your white privilege wants it to be. If you label all white people indiscriminately in the angry and aggressive way that you do using that kind of language you are being just as racist as those you accuse of it and you will only alienate those white people - the vast majority - that support your cause. You have rightful grievances, don't lash out at those who would help you fix them.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
I've no idea. On this side of the pond nobody discusses religion - it's a non-subject, mostly irrelevant - so no way of knowing unless there's some formal surveys somewhere.
There may be a big difference between the developed and undeveloped world of course. ABE
quote: Atheism in the African diaspora - Wikipedia This kind of crap (below) is really annoying. Atheists are just people that lack a belief in god, apart from that they're just ordinary people with their ordinary biases and prejudices. Hardly any of us are involved in any sort of 'movement' or group. And the concept of 'tacitly' racist is insulting and in itself racist. We really need to stop banding that word about randomly, it's losing its actual meaning and has begun to mean the slightest imaginary slight. Real racism is an evil that need harsh treatment, 'implicit' slights don't come anywhere near it.
quote: Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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