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Author
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Topic: Did Jesus Exist? by Bart Ehrman
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 436 of 563 (915903)
02-20-2024 9:46 AM
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Reply to: Message 429 by PaulK
02-20-2024 12:28 AM
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Obviously better than yours
So none. Therefore, not better than mine. I actually have training in historical research. Damn, I have a relevant Masters. I know it is not really relevant to this discussion, but as you are resorting to personal attacks I guess I should defend myself. Oh yeah I forgot. I did actual field work at an archaelogical dig in Israel. As you say I have no idea what I am talking about. It just slipped my mind. Tel Gerisa - Wikipedia So Paul does not say what he knows is by revelation alone? Do you want to argue about the definition if apocryphal? Maybe you have a different definition from accepted English.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 429 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2024 12:28 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 441 by Phat, posted 02-20-2024 11:18 AM | | Theodoric has replied | | | Message 444 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2024 1:08 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 437 of 563 (915904)
02-20-2024 9:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 431 by PaulK
02-20-2024 6:21 AM
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So you want to argue by definition?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 431 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2024 6:21 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 438 of 563 (915905)
02-20-2024 9:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 435 by PaulK
02-20-2024 8:22 AM
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Sources suck at times
From your source
quote:
APOCRYPHAL implies an unknown or dubious source or origin or may imply that the thing itself is dubious or inaccurate.
So you are going to resort to equivocation?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 435 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2024 8:22 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 439 of 563 (915906)
02-20-2024 9:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 435 by PaulK
02-20-2024 8:22 AM
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It seems that you are the one cherry-picking and expecting others to agree with your choices. Wikipedia expands in the definition you offer I chose the word and I get to choose which of its meanings I express. I don't give a flyin flip what other definitions fit YOUR narrative. Keep your self-serving alternate definitions away from my syntax.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 435 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2024 8:22 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 440 of 563 (915909)
02-20-2024 10:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 428 by Percy
02-19-2024 6:01 PM
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Hi Percy,
Percy writes: certainly no consensus among Jesus scholars about the historical Jesus. How long has it been since you checked on a consensus among Jesus scholars? Just wondering. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 428 by Percy, posted 02-19-2024 6:01 PM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 441 of 563 (915910)
02-20-2024 11:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 436 by Theodoric
02-20-2024 9:46 AM
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Can You Dig It?
Im guessing that the head honcho at that archeological dig was an atheist. Or a secular humanist like yourself who never had his mind "tainted" by this pesky virus known as Christianity.  RC Sproul actually went to school. He never dishonestly acquired diplomas and degrees as did Zacharias. For some reason you distrust all professing apologists...or am I just assuming?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 436 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2024 9:46 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 442 of 563 (915913)
02-20-2024 11:28 AM
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Historical Jesus
To whom it may concern! You guys seem to use Wikipedia a lot I found this there: Historical Jesus - Wikipedia
quote:
The term "historical Jesus" refers to the life and teachings of Jesus as interpreted through critical historical methods, in contrast to what are traditionally religious interpretations.[1][2] It also considers the historical and cultural contexts in which Jesus lived.[3][4][5][6] Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and the idea that Jesus was a mythical figure has been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory.[7][8][9][10][11] Scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the biblical accounts, with only two events being supported by nearly universal scholarly consensus: Jesus was baptized and Jesus was crucified.[1
God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 443 of 563 (915920)
02-20-2024 12:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 441 by Phat
02-20-2024 11:18 AM
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Re: Can You Dig It?
Why would you think that? The dig was run by Tel Aviv University. I assume most of them were Jewish. Anson Rainey was an evangelical that converted to Judaism. Is that worse? Why would you think this is relevant? Why would you even ask such a thing? That is right, you are nothing but an ignorant, christian, troll.
RC Sproul actually went to school. He never dishonestly acquired diplomas and degrees as did Zacharias. For some reason you distrust all professing apologists...or am I just assuming?
Can you stay on topic? How is this relevant. I have already shown that Sproul's Ph.D is from an unaccredited diploma mill.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 441 by Phat, posted 02-20-2024 11:18 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 447 by Phat, posted 02-20-2024 2:14 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.4
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quote:
I actually have training in historical research. Damn, I have a relevant Masters.
I’m pretty sure that unthinking denialism is not accepted as a valid method of historical research.
quote:
So Paul does not say what he knows is by revelation alone?
That’s where he got his teachings. It’s certainly not where he gets his ideas about the things he personally did. But you’re throwing those out, too.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 436 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2024 9:46 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 445 of 563 (915930)
02-20-2024 1:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 444 by PaulK
02-20-2024 1:08 PM
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It is not unthinking denialism. It is looking at the lack of evidence and coming to a conclusion. There is no evidence for Mithra, but there are many texts about him. Should we assume he was historical too. Or how about Attis? Where does Paul talk about achieving knowledge about Jesus from other people? Why does he know nothing about the Gospels or the tales told in them?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 444 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2024 1:08 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 446 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2024 1:40 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.4
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quote:
It is not unthinking denialism.
It certainly is.
quote:
It is looking at the lack of evidence and coming to a conclusion.
I don’t think that pretending that the evidence doesn’t exist counts as looking at it.
quote:
Where does Paul talk about achieving knowledge about Jesus from other people?
Who says that he needs to? I mean I invoked Paul’s Epistles as evidence that Christianity preceded Paul’s conversion - and that he identified James as Jesus’ brother. Neither of these require him to have much knowledge of Jesus, nor would they be counted in the teachings he got from revelation.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 445 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2024 1:30 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 447 of 563 (915935)
02-20-2024 2:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 443 by Theodoric
02-20-2024 12:13 PM
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Re: Can You Dig It?
I am unimpressed with a guy who simply has an accredited degree if they show no common sense. You refused to even listen to Sproul but simply googled his credentials, so you have not examined all of the evidence that he offers. Bart Ehrman once was a born again evangelical, later an Episcopal, and currently an Agnostic Atheist. I respect him for at least thinking and examinng both sides of the coin, which you seem to refuse to do. You yourself told me that you have never really been a believer, so how can you criticize them? One size does not fit all.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 443 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2024 12:13 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 448 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2024 2:40 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 448 of 563 (915936)
02-20-2024 2:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 447 by Phat
02-20-2024 2:14 PM
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Re: Can You Dig It?
I am unimpressed with a guy who simply has an accredited degree if they show no common sense. You refused to even listen to Sproul but simply googled his credentials, so you have not examined all of the evidence that he offers.
So there is no chance of you staying on topic is there. Now personal attacks. A Christian apologist and minister is not going to convince me of anything. I can and have read multiple versions of the Bible. I have even read it in Spanish. They vary wildly and I do not need someone telling me what the words mean. He can provide no evidence just apologetics. Ok done with your off topic bullshit. The rest is just personal attacks and theist bullshit so ignoring.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 447 by Phat, posted 02-20-2024 2:14 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 449 of 563 (915937)
02-20-2024 3:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 444 by PaulK
02-20-2024 1:08 PM
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None of the evidence you think you have produced stands up to historical enquiry. There is no one else that would be considered historical with this utter lack of evidence. Then again you seem to be the expert on historical research and the historical method,
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 444 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2024 1:08 PM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 450 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2024 3:18 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17828 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.4
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quote:
None of the evidence you think you have produced stands up to historical enquiry.
More mindless denialism. If that’s your idea of “historical enquiry” you have a problem.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 449 by Theodoric, posted 02-20-2024 3:12 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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