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Author Topic:   The Master Cleanse
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 32 (371396)
12-21-2006 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by JustinC
12-19-2006 8:28 PM


Stop her
She plans on doing it for a full ten days, but I don't think it seems safe (she's already 110 lbs and you can lose up to 10 lbs on this). I also don't know if its effective and what it cleanses and how its supposed to make you healthier.
At 110 pounds, an adult, even a very short adult, is dangerously underweight and probably malnourished. It sounds as if your girlfriend has bouts with anorexia. That "cleanse" is basically a diaeretic. It does not have enough nutrients to sustain her for ten days, especially when it will likely cause her to lose a lot of water weight.
It does not sound good. That isn't a diet, that's starvation. And at her tiny weight, she can't afford ten days of that. Yeah, she'll lose weight-- water weight, not fat. It can be dangerous for her. Stop her if you can.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3942 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 17 of 32 (371403)
12-21-2006 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by JustinC
12-19-2006 8:28 PM


Cleansing
What I don't get about most of these wacky "natural" healing solutions is how they are at all "natural". The body knows how to clean itself out naturally. What your GF is doing is actually unnaturally affecting her body for some unknown effect.
Naturally you need a certain caloric intake a day to function normally. You should also probably get a balanced diet that includes fats and vitamins. Given that, the body will clean itself. You certainly can do things to make it more difficult for your body to "clean" itself out such as only eating meat but the solution to that is not to "cleanse" but rather get back onto a normal diet that includes the fiber you need to have you body do what it does best...
... naturally.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

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nator
Member (Idle past 2201 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 18 of 32 (371427)
12-21-2006 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by johnfolton
12-21-2006 10:56 AM


OK, so what you seem to be saying is that you don't actually have any evidence that chlorophyll does all the things your post said it does.
quote:
Perhaps Justins gf would benefit from the plant enzymes in the chlorophyll that helps the bodys digestion(then she wouldn't feel the need to fast).
There are no enzyems in chlorophyll.
Also, any enzymes that are present in chlorophyll (or any food that we ingest) are neutralized by stomach acid.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by johnfolton, posted 12-21-2006 10:56 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2544 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 19 of 32 (371455)
12-21-2006 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by nator
12-21-2006 3:53 PM


There are no enzyems in chlorophyll.
Also, any enzymes that are present in chlorophyll
second part (that I didn't quote) is quite true, with one or two exceptions. I'm quite fuzzy on my digestive biology, but we might actually produce one or two enzymes that can withstand the HCl in our stomach. I think its pepsin. Either that, or pepsin is involved in production of HCl acid.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2201 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 20 of 32 (371463)
12-21-2006 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by kuresu
12-21-2006 5:26 PM


Oh, sure, there are several enzymes that we produce that we use to help in the digestion of food. Some are in the saliva, I believe.
The point is that the people who advocate ingesting raw foods like wheatgrass, thinking that the enzymes ingested help their own digestion, are wrong.
(I see why you were laughing, and I agree my particular word choice was bad. )

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5622 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 21 of 32 (371474)
12-21-2006 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by nator
12-21-2006 3:53 PM


There are no enzyems in chlorophyll.
Also, any enzymes that are present in chlorophyll (or any food that we ingest) are neutralized by stomach acid.
No it appears just the opposite plant enzymes are not destroyed by the acids in the stomach. Wheatgrass chlorophyll has enzymes that aids digestion. It has b vitamens, minerals, etc...
P.S. I just broke down and bought a bag of apricot pits(preventive maintenace). The word is not to take any more that 5 pits per day to give the needed allotment of b17. Its cheaper than buying sprouted sprouts at the local grocery store to get the daily allotment of b17.
-----------------------------------------------
And "maximum nutrients" they are. Wheatgrass contains all amino acids, is full of essential fatty acids, vitamins and minerals, vitamins A, C and Bs, is high in iron and vitamin K*. And we mustn’t forget about the enzymes wheatgrass juice delivers. Enzymes are complex protein compounds produced by living cells that speed up biochemical reactions required for proper and normal functioning of every organ system and have also been found to aid digestion!
Jamba Juice Error Page: 404 Page
Why does Infinity2 use plant-based enzymes instead of pancreatic or animal enzymes?
Plant-based enzymes are more effective than animal or pancreatic enzymes because they remain active throughout the entire digestive process and they do not interfere with the natural functioning of the body, so they have no side effects.
http://www.infinity2.com/faq/products.asp#8
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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 Message 23 by nator, posted 12-21-2006 9:01 PM johnfolton has replied
 Message 24 by kuresu, posted 12-22-2006 12:16 AM johnfolton has replied
 Message 27 by sidelined, posted 12-22-2006 8:00 AM johnfolton has replied
 Message 28 by Phalanx, posted 12-22-2006 9:05 AM johnfolton has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2201 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 22 of 32 (371499)
12-21-2006 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by johnfolton
12-21-2006 6:51 PM


quote:
No it appears just the opposite plant enzymes are not destroyed by the acids in the stomach.
I'm sorry to inform you that your notion is incorrect.
Ingested enzyems are denatured (destroyed) just like other proteins in the digestion process.
quote:
Wheatgrass chlorophyll has enzymes that aids digestion.
Like I said, any plant enzymes, which are proteins, are denatured in the presence of stomach acid.
It's just like what happens if you combine lemon juice and milk; it curdles. The proteins in the milk are denatured (unraveled) by the acetic acid. Therefore, since their molecular structures are irrevocably altered once they encounter stomach acid, they are no longer able to act as catalysts (which is what enzymes do).
Any enzymes that are needed for our digestion are produced in our own bodies.
quote:
It has b vitamens, minerals, etc...
That wheatgrass juice has viamins and minerals is not in contention.
Vitamins and minerals are not enzymes/proteins.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2201 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 23 of 32 (371502)
12-21-2006 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by johnfolton
12-21-2006 6:51 PM


apricot pits
quote:
I just broke down and bought a bag of apricot pits(preventive maintenace). The word is not to take any more that 5 pits per day to give the needed allotment of b17. Its cheaper than buying sprouted sprouts at the local grocery store to get the daily allotment of b17.
Apricot pits are also a source of all natural dietary cyanide.
There's no such thing, by the way, as "vitamin B17".

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2544 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 24 of 32 (371527)
12-22-2006 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by johnfolton
12-21-2006 6:51 PM


methinks you have no clue what chlorophyll is.
here's a picture for you. or rather, pictures.
Chlorophyll - Wikipedia
also, chlorophyll HAS NO ENYMES. THEY AREN'T EVEN PROTEINS (which all biological enzymes are). ALL THEY DO, and ALL THEY ARE GOOD AT IS TRANSFERING LIGHT ENERGY!!
I swear, if one more person says that chlorophyll is an enyzme or does anything more than just doing its part in photosynthesis, I'm gonna scream.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5622 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 25 of 32 (371536)
12-22-2006 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by nator
12-21-2006 9:01 PM


Re: apricot pits (non-toxic thiocyanate) ?
Apricot pits are also a source of all natural dietary cyanide.
That explains why your not to take more than 5 apricot seeds in a day. Does not seem there is any proof that cyanide is being released in a healthy cell. The saliva and blood tests indicate non-toxic thiocyanate and not cyanide. If it was being released in healthy cells why is Laetrile being used to treat cancer. Is it not because the enzyme rhodanese adequately converts cyanide to thiocyanate in the healthy cells.
However I'm open to any proof that the enzyme rhodanese is not adequately converting cyanide to the non-toxic thiocyanate.
B17 is in a whole host of foods commonly eaten, if they really believed its releasing cyanide in healthy cells the FDA would be recommending the Roman diet of upchucking.
There's no such thing, by the way, as "vitamin B17".
B12 is another cyanide containing compound but its considered a vitamen because it does not threaten the drug companies profits.
Think of all the elderly that would lose if B12 shots were outlawed because it has cyanide.
Laetrile(B17) is a natural substance that helps prevent cancer because because in cancer tissues the cancer cell is unable to prevent a non toxic response to the cyanide.
Just because its labeled a drug does not mean its not a vitamen.
----------------------------------------------
When vitamin B-17 enters the body (in foods, for example), it is hydrolyzed only to a very slight degree by body or somatic cells. This is obvious from the non-toxicity shown by B-17. But even if some of the B-17 is hydrolyzed by body or somatic cells, the very high concentration of the enzyme rhodanese in these cells converts the HCN immediately to relatively non-toxic thiocyanate. (This accounts largely for the thiocyanate that you find in blood, urine, saliva, etc., as stated above).
The presence of nitriloside in the diet produces specific physiologic effects and leaves as metabolites specific chemical compounds of a physiologically active nature.
The production by a non-toxic, water-soluble accessory food factor of specific physiological effects as well as identifiable metabolites suggests the vitamin nature of the compound.
The quantities of the vitamin B-17 in the described foods have been very carefully determined by independent workers over the years. Because of our cultural antipathy to cyanide, our food technology has made every conceivable effort through processing, hybridizing, distilling, etc., to remove every trace of derivable cyanide from foods for man and animals. It is good that this irrationality has not to date, at least, completely removed the cyanide-containing vitamin B-12 or cyanocobalamin.
Forbidden

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5622 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 26 of 32 (371538)
12-22-2006 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by kuresu
12-22-2006 12:16 AM


The chlorophyll you buy in the health food store is produced primarily by wheatgrass juicing. The liquid chlorophyll is being produced by juicing so its is also full of enzymes, minerals, and vitamens.
The chlorophyll molecule itself is converted to pheophytin when it gives up the magnesium in digestion it then becomes bioabsorbed in the small intestine.
-----------------------------------------------------
Chlorella can
Build your immune system
Detoxify the heavy metals and other pesticides in your body
Improve your digestive system, including decreasing constipation
Focus more clearly and for greater duration
Improve your energy level
Chlorella is Alkaline and helps to Balance your body's pH
Normalize your blood sugar and blood pressure
Eliminate bad breath
Fight cancer
Increase T-Cells and B-Cells
Improves fatigue associated with chemotherapy
Stimulates Interferon
Increases Growth of Beneficial Bacteria in the Colon
http://www.oasisadvancedwellness.com/.../chlorella-caps.html
"The acidic conditions in the stomach cause the magnesium to be lost, and the chlorophyll becomes a pheophytin, the same as you'd get if you canned some green vegetables," Failla said. The artificial digestion system, known as the Coupled In Vitro Digestion and Caco-2 Human Cell Model, showed that absorptive cells lining the small intestine actually do uptake pheophytins formed during digestion of spinach puree.
Site | OSU Extension

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 27 of 32 (371569)
12-22-2006 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by johnfolton
12-21-2006 6:51 PM


Charley
P.S. I just broke down and bought a bag of apricot pits(preventive maintenace). The word is not to take any more that 5 pits per day to give the needed allotment of b17. Its cheaper than buying sprouted sprouts at the local grocery store to get the daily allotment of b17.
You are aware that apricot pits contain cyanogenic glycosides which release cyanide when digested right. Could you explain the nutritional value of ingesting cyanide Charley?

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Phalanx
Member (Idle past 5743 days)
Posts: 31
From: Old Bridge, NJ, US
Joined: 10-12-2006


Message 28 of 32 (371573)
12-22-2006 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by johnfolton
12-21-2006 6:51 PM


I'm just gonna follow what sidelined had to say with the link to wikipedia's article, here. It would seem that amygdalin, or "vitamin B17", has undergone a few clinical studies, with no visible effect. Seems to me like a waste of your money.

And the Ignorant shall fall to the Squirrels - Chip 2:54

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5622 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 29 of 32 (371593)
12-22-2006 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phalanx
12-22-2006 9:05 AM


Seems to me like a waste of your money.
Without zinc / copper appears it would be a waste of money. People die for a lack of knowledge b17 is primarily a prevention thing but if one takes to many apricot/almonds seeds they would likely end up in the emergency room. If you drink too much water you could end up in the emergency room, etc...
--------------------------------------------------
Vitamin B17 may help prevent cancer, but if one already has cancer, a complete protocol is required including diet, enzymes, exercise, detoxification, and supplementation, as prescribed by a physician. It is best to work with an alternative physician to be sure you are using the best approach to treat your particular condition. These doctors and clinics are offering Laetrile / B17 as part of their therapy. Get your doctor to work with you ” not on you.
Importance of Zinc: Zinc is the transportation mechanism for laetrile and nitrilosides in the body. Biochemists and researchers have found that you can give Laetrile to a patient until its coming out of the ears of the patient, but, if that patient did not have sufficient level of Zinc, none of the laetrile would get into the tissues of the body. They also found that nothing heals within the body without sufficient Vitamin C. They also found that magnesium, selenium, vitamin A, and B all played an important part in maintaining the body's defence mechanism. This is why its very important to understand that cancer is best treated with a total nutritional program consisting of diet, vitamins, minerals, laetrile, and pancreatic enzymes.
Many people take Laetrile / B17 in its natural state: bitter almonds or apricot seeds. And many of these people end up in the emergency wards nearly poisoned to death. This is because they are not following the directions, or taking the seeds without any supervision. The apricot seeds contain cyanide. Although Laetrile / B17 is less toxic than sugar and 21 times less toxic than aspirin, you can take to much... Unfortunately, one can take to much of anything ” even water. So to question the use of vitamin B17 on the grounds of toxicity is extraordinary as all the drugs used currently in orthodox cancer therapy are extremely toxic.
http://home.bluegrass.net/~jclark/b17_dosage.htm
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5622 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 30 of 32 (371596)
12-22-2006 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by sidelined
12-22-2006 8:00 AM


You are aware that apricot pits contain cyanogenic glycosides which release cyanide when digested right.
Please show your evidence that if digested right cyanogenic glycosides release cyanide. It appears just the opposite happens and its only when one consumes too many apricot seed that one might end up in the emergency room.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

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