Sharia Law and the west: Should it be allowed on a volunteer basis?

You guys sure hit a nerve.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

I believe many of those killed were not marked, but, rather, died in gun battles for strategic purposes. In some cases, it was Arabs who attacked first, but who died in the ensuing battle. This was less terrorists attacks than guerilla war. And, as you know, it wa the Arabs who began and sustained that guerilla war.

It is called skepticism. You have yet to even attempt to defend to issues I raised with the poll. Your main defense in nearly every thread on this board with anyone challanges your view is flippant dismissal. I'll believe it when I see objective, non-biased evidence to the positive. Exactly like everything else I trust that is of the world. You have thus far given us none of that. Maybe so. But all over this country raving Neo-Conservatives are attacking freedom too. I put much more of my focus on the domestic threat for now. You are the one with the leftist view on this topic sir. You are the one talking about more government control, more government restrictions, etc. I nor holmes here have ever taken the position that there is no problem as far as I can recall. Your generalization is your own delusion. The main point is simply that we do not agree with YOUR SOLUTION to the problem in that it is based upon hypocricy and anti democratic values. You cannot preserve freedom by taking it away. Your position is the anti-thesis of a true democracy despite the failure of even our own country to uphold that ideal in its history. It does not make it right.

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No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

Again, you argue for the sake of arguing. At times i have seen that you're intelligent. these posts are not up that standard. You're just finding something, anything, to go on about, hoping that the irrelevancy can get by me. I haven't patience to get into back and forth of that kind of thing. You may fool others here, and apparently you have, but neither me nor, i suspect, yourself.

Guess we've both stated our peace, and there's nothing more to add.

No not at all! Please answer. Do you consider yourself more Canadian or more Jew? If you had to pick one which would you pick?I don't know why you took so much offense to my other statements. I simply asked you to participate in the poll and mentioned why some of us might think your argument is bigotted. If you are concerned about seeming bigotted then maybe you could clear that up for us. I am not making any accusations here. Your own beliefs and biases are not on trial here only your statements. If you took offense then maybe you should try to be a little more detached.

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No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

OK. When the Jews put landmines in a cinema or throw grenades into cafes its guerilla warfare and the deaths serve strategic purposes. When the Arabs do it, its terrorism.

My identity is far more liberal western democrat than jew, but the two are intertwined. I am Jewish, but in the context of this civilization that jews originated and have greatly contributed to. Most Western jews are like that. Which explains why american jews vote Democrat, even though the Republicans are more Israel friendly. That is, Jews vote as the leftists they are, rather than for strictly Jewish interests per se. That they can do because they are also westerners. In contrast, Bush lost the majority Muslim vote in 04 that he had had in 2000. Because American Muslims, even 2nd generation - which is important here - perceived that he led western civilization into wars against Islam. This is the history on which they are raised: the epochal battle between the good guys, themselves, and the bad guys, the christian world. They identify with islalmic civilization (and its telling of history and peceptions) more than the US or western civilzation. And this is despite the illogic: They know, or have every reason to know given the consistent polls, that iraqis and Afghanis favour the wars he launched, as they perceive themselves to have been emancipated from tryanny, and generally feel good about evolving self-government.In other words, they identify with islamic civilization and voted accordingly.In contrast, were israel ruled by tyranny, Jews would not only object to the US defeating the authoritarian power and bringing democracy, but would probably demand it. That's because, again, Jews idenitify with being of the same civiliztion as the US. It would not be a war against Jewish civilization, but in favour of it.It's all about identity, personal and civilizational.

You seem to be equating Israel friendly with Jew friendly. You discuss a Muslim's feelings about their religion along with a Jew's feelings concerning a country in the middle east that they may or may not have ever been to or thought much about.

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Asgara
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"select * from USERS where CLUE > 0http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This simply is not true. But if that is what you wish to pretend to yourself, in order to avoid answering direct rebuttal and questions, then there isn't much I can do about it.I will continue to challenge fallacious statements by you, regardless of whether you answer. They will be as they always have been, directly related to the point you are driving at. I doubt that anyone is fooled as to what is going on here, including yourself, despite such commentary.Perhaps you would be satisfied by my tying an arm behind my back and only addressing the points you feel are pertinent to your case?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Or they were liberal, like most Jews, and voted accordingly? I saw no evidence behind any of your statements regarding Jews or muslims, except assertions and stereotypes.I might note that there were several prominent Jews who actually advocated for Jews to vote for Bush in 04 in order to support Israel. No one has claimed that modern Israel is ruled by a tyranny, though if they were why would they object to the US defeating their enemies? Iraq's neighbors are tyrannies or at the very least, not democracies, and supported Bush's decision to war in Iraq.I don't find it odd to think that Israelis would consider themselves within the same general civilization, since most of their numbers come from Europe and the US. Of course they do not consider themselves necessarily "of" our nations, nor of the same underlying culture of Judaism.If they felt the same then they would be just as home within the West, as within Israel. There would have been no need for a separate nation dedicated only to their own religion. Indeed there were times where they attacked other western nations, when they felt their own ambitions might be curbed.Also, while they are certainly not a tyranny, they are also not a true democracy. They have inequal rights for minorities within their borders, so as to maintain religious/racial control of that nation. Any nation outside of Israel gets criticized for such policies, ironically even by Israel.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Please just answer the quest either here on in the poll thread.Forced to choose between your Canadian/Western citizenship and your religious beliefs, which would you choose?

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No smoking signs by gas stations. No religion in the public square. The government should keep us from being engulfed in flames on earth, and that is pretty much it. -- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

He answered already...Obfuscation and silence.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

First, they had no army and no other means of fighting the british. They were fighting for their homeland that the league of nations had granted and to which the british had agreed as custodian of the land, not occupying power. But where the citizens were killed randomly, of course that was terrorism. i never said otherwise. and the major jewish body of the time condemned such acts, of which there were fewer than you believe. As i pointed out, your list was of arabs killed. But not all, and probably most, were not killed in terrorist attacks. In fact, it was the arabs who were launching the terrorist attacks against the jews, even then. And even then, defense against such attacks was construed as aggression by the Jews. In some cases, ys, there were reprisal attacks. there was no other way to minimize further Arabs attacks. In the same way, the allies bombed civilians in germany and japan.But I digress...Attacks on british military sites - as the king david was - and on british soldiers were justified.

I don't get your point.