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Member (Idle past 6184 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Older and wiser | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You mean to say that you could not pretend to be a believer in God and absolute truth? You surely know the arguments.
If atheism is not a choice, is it then a given...for lack of proof? Riiiiight. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-26-2004 01:33 AM
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
You mean to say that you could not pretend to be a believer in God and absolute truth? Why would I want to pretend? That would make a mockery of your beliefs and my principles, and the principles of religious freedom we cherish in our society. I can't follow any religion sincerely, so I follow none. It's not really a choice.
If atheism is not a choice, is it then a given...for lack of proof? It's the inescapable conclusion when one realizes that there is no more proof for God than for anything else that we comfortably assume does not exist. Like the man said, you and I are both atheists, with a difference of degree - I disbelieve in one more God than you do.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I am going to open a new topic on this issue. Born2Preach, we can have our discussion there, unless you want to start it here. Basically, again, the idea of this debate is for anyone participating to take the opposite or different position than what they actually believe. Crashfrog has already opted out by claiming to be unable to act. Actors take on characters that they are not like. I am asking participants to take on the beliefs that they usually defend their beliefs against. For example, Mike the Wiz, Buzsaw, Myself(Phatboy) Chris and Prophex, Willowtree, and Jar will become atheists.
Gilgamesh, Lam, Nosy Ned,Sidelined,and Schraff will become Monotheists. It would be easiest to be Christian Theists, so i will suggest that. All of us can take this light, yet we must use the counter arguments to which we have been accustomed. Does anyone else want to participate? Should we start a new thread? This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-26-2004 02:43 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Crashfrog writes: The whole point is for you to take on a debate using the philosophy used by Theists. It is not supposed to be "comfortable" and I can see why you are backing off..how in the world could you "comfortably" assume anything? That smacks of you having your own human wisdom as your god.
It's the inescapable conclusion when one realizes that there is no more proof for God than for anything else that we comfortably assume does not exist.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
The whole point is for you to take on a debate using the philosophy used by Theists. Oh. I guess I missed that. I didn't realize that you were asking me to "act" like a theist for purpose of debate. Not that I'm interested in that, though. Good luck pretending to be an atheist. I'm not exactly sure what it will accomplish when you "lose" to B2P.
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One_Charred_Wing Member (Idle past 6184 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: |
Good luck pretending to be an atheist. I'm not exactly sure what it will accomplish when you "lose" to B2P. It's really hard to argue for something you don't agree with in my experience. And really, it's a lose-lose situation to do so there. If he wins, he just took the faith of a preacher-to-be, which I'm sure he doesn't want. If he loses, neither of our minds are changed and for once I get a win.(I don't consider it a win or lose unless somebody's point of view is completely changed, which means I'm still 0-0. In this case it'll be a win because all I have to do is not change my mind. I rule.) God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God. Xanga 2.0 is Here! (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If he loses, neither of our minds are changed and for once I get a win. Well, he's not going to win. Even if he could, he's going to pull that final punch. I just don't see what kind of a "win" it is for you if the only win you could have is against someone who has no intention of doing anything but letting you win. It'd be like me in a boxing match with Mike Tyson, only the part of Mike Tyson will be played by a soft, cuddly kitten. Have I really won a boxing match when I inevitably kick the kitten's ass?
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One_Charred_Wing Member (Idle past 6184 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: |
Well, he's not going to win. Even if he could, he's going to pull that final punch. I just don't see what kind of a "win" it is for you if the only win you could have is against someone who has no intention of doing anything but letting you win. If somebody stood in my way, bracing himself and saying "kick me!" then I'd by all means kick him. I realize his point is not to win, but maybe if I make a topic like that I can get some real heavy hitters to join in. (edited to fix grammar) This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 10-26-2004 06:36 PM
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contracycle Inactive Member |
I dunno, the devils advocate approach is valid, if done with the right frame of mind. It is very inetersting to try to think your way through someone elses analysis sufficiently well to advance the argument.
It's slightly more problematic in apublic forum, but not untenable.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5936 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
contracycle
I do not personally think that such a topic would last before tempers flared and admins beat us back to the stone age. Oh well since when did I ever take things cautiously? Count me in if the thread ever starts.
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zephyr Member (Idle past 4579 days) Posts: 821 From: FOB Taji, Iraq Joined: |
Man, I checked out your site and just about lost my ass laughing. I'm glad to see such an open-minded young man headed for the ministry. If you don't get totally disillusioned and bail out, you might actually do people some good. A lot of folks could use your kind of perspective mixed in with the run-of-the-mill dogma they get in churches, you know
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One_Charred_Wing Member (Idle past 6184 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: |
Thanks a lot for dropping a glace and enjoying the site. Good to see you're still doing okay. Are you still in Iraq or on leave right now?
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One_Charred_Wing Member (Idle past 6184 days) Posts: 690 From: USA West Coast Joined: |
Before they tag us for topic drift, I'll make that proposed topic. It'll be entitled something like 'Refute the unrefutable'. I'll edit in the actual title, and I'll try to think of a cooler name for it.
(EDITED IN) Actual title:'Atheistic Preacher?' I'll update when it either gets approved or dumped. (Got approved. Bring it on!) This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 10-30-2004 12:42 PM This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 10-30-2004 04:48 PM God is far more powerful than what most have in mind. Imagine God as best you can. Now zoom out from that picture in your mind and imagine a God above the previous one, even more powerful than the first. Zoom out further and imagine an even greater God. Now do that endlessly. That, my friend, is but a glimmering sliver of God. Xanga 2.0 is Here! (WARNING:EXPLICT LANGUAGE)
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zephyr Member (Idle past 4579 days) Posts: 821 From: FOB Taji, Iraq Joined: |
Heh... didn't you see my "For Sidelined (greetings from Iraq)" thread today?
I've got 129 days down and about 35 to go. \m/ \m/
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Tony650 Member (Idle past 4061 days) Posts: 450 From: Australia Joined: |
Ack! It seems that I'm a little late. My apologies. Happy belated birthday, Preach! Hope you had a good one!
Born2Preach writes: That's right, you knuckleheads: I'm now 17 years old. Ha! Who's old and wise NOW?! *sigh* I remember being seventeen. Well, if you're old and wise, that must make me very, very..............wise.
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