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Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Are you Racist? Homophobic? etc | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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The grand jury couldn't possibly have come to the right conclusion because everybody here just KNOWS they lied, because the police are always at fault when it's a white cop on a black criminal. No, the problem is that we don't know if the cop was at fault because the grand jury process prevented us from getting a trial.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
What I'm talking about is one step before the grand jury, the investigation itself. It makes no sense to have the police policing the police. Every police shooting should be investigated by an outside agency (preferably a civilian agency). The officer should not be allowed to carry a weapon during the investigation. The results of that investigation should determine whether the shooter is prosecuted, the same as it would for a civilian shooter.
don't know how the grand jury system got started but from what everyone is saying it can't be the most reliable method for dealing with this sort of thing.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There is another investigation going on as oohchild reported so there may be more to come. From the Department of Justice. Perhaps they will agree with the grand jury. Then what?
My conclusion is the same. Despite the problems, the grand jury rightly found there was not enough evidence to bring Darren Wilson to trial, that there was sufficient exculpatory evidence. I'll predict that if there is a trial, which I hope there could still be just because of all the distrust of the grand jury, that Wilson would be exonerated.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
My conclusion is the same. Despite the problems, the grand jury rightly found there was not enough evidence to bring Darren Wilson to trial, that there was sufficient exculpatory evidence. But as I understand it, that's not the sort of thing a grand jury should do. If the witnesses have conflicting stories, if some make him out to be innocent and some guilty, then weighing that evidence is exactly the job of an actual jury, and so it should be passed on to one. Again, this is just as I understand it, and anyone who knows better should feel free to correct me.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
But as I understand it, that's not the sort of thing a grand jury should do. Again, this is just as I understand it, and anyone who knows better should feel free to correct me. Generally speaking the grand jury is a prosecution tool. There is no right for the defense to put on evidence, and the prosecutor is usually the only lawyer in attendance. The object is to determine if there is sufficient evidence to show that a crime was probably committed. The defense does not present a case. I would expect that a grand jury would have to consider the credibility of any witnesses they interview, but generally the witnesses the grand jury hears are the ones the prosecutor puts forth. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
. I would think some kind of system is needed along its lines, though, something that can determine if the evidence calls for a trial or not, because trials are cumbersome and expensive, but a method that is more trustworthy, whatever that might involve. A grand jury is not the universally used system. Some states always use it, but many (and perhaps most) states use a preliminary hearing. The Fifth Amendment does not require that a grand jury be used in every homicide case. I'm not sure anyone else in the world still uses a grand jury.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There was also physical evidence, the direction of the bullets that hit Michael Brown and the pattern of blood spatters on the ground. Although they are subject to some interpretation, these generally support Wilson's story about what happened.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Black guy from Baltimore to New York City with the intention of killing some cops in revenge for Brown and Garner. He killed two, then himself. "They take one of ours, we take one of theirs." Never mind that the cops were probably not to blame in either case, and certainly no racism was involved as implied in the man's stated motive. Nevertheless, the impression has been created that they were to blame.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Probably not racism as much as a misguided hatred toward police, as the police seem to have been asian and hispanic.
Amazing how you do not attribute any police action to racism but assume this is racist action.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Probably not racism as much as a misguided hatred toward police, as the police seem to have been asian and hispanic.
As the guy HIMSELF said, or wrote on the internet somewhere, it was REVENGE for what he understood to be the racism-motivated killings of Brown and Garner. "They kill ours, we kill theirs" is what he said.Amazing how you do not attribute any police action to racism but assume this is racist action. I wondered if he even noticed that the cops were Asian and Hispanic since he acted so fast, and if that might have made a difference if he had. And I'll attribute racism to police action when I see a reason to. These cases recently in the news show no evidence whatever of having any relation to racism. AS I'VE SHOWN OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
No you have not.
Your hypocrisy is still astounding.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Faith,
Do you think that this may have something to do with police shooting young black men more than young white men?
Super Predators (April 1, 1999):
quote: The Juvenile Superpredator Myth quote: John DiIulio Retreats From His Super-Predator Theory of Black Teenagers quote: You have to sign up to go further on that post. In other words young black men were branded as inherently dangerous because of a false theory (recanted by the author) which was used to formulate draconian law enforcement policies that are still in effect. Is this racist? Not directly, but it still distinguishes between young black men and young white men and leads to different treatments -- ie the behaviors we have seen talked about on this thread -- by police and law enforcement. I call it a racial bias, that black youth are inherently perceived as more dangerous than their white cohorts ... don't you? and because of a false theory that still rebounds in law enforcement circles. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... , turned and charged at him and got himself killed FOR HIS OWN CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR. ... and it turns out that the one witness that said this was lying ... http://thinkprogress.org/...t-the-case-against-darren-wilson
quote: There is also evidence of contradictions in Wilson’s testimony that were not challenged. It will be interesting to see what the federal review will find.
Tamir Rice is just horribly pathetic. I don't know if the cops were out of line in any way or not. They clearly thought they were dealing with a dangerous armed criminal, to watch their behavior on the surveillance camera. A poor innocent kid got killed because he had no clue that he was scaring people with his very real-looking gun. The question that keeps getting asked is why it is more likely that a black youth is assumed to be dangerous than a white cohort. Why are black youths seen as dangerous? see Message 327 for part of the answer. If you understand the problem then you are better able to derive a solution. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : added quoteby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Your hypocrisy is still astounding. I don't think you're reading Faith's latest posts right.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
I think I am please show where you think I am in error. Why would she bring up the idea if shooter not realizing the races of the cops he shot?
Maybe I am misreading her but don't see how. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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