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Author Topic:   E.O. Wilson Wants Us to Leave Half of the Earth Alone
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 29 (768120)
09-07-2015 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Theodoric
09-07-2015 10:23 PM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
Calling him a scientist of any kind is probably being a little too generous, don't you think?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Theodoric, posted 09-07-2015 10:23 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Theodoric, posted 09-08-2015 8:15 AM Jon has responded

  
Theodoric
Member (Idle past 79 days)
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 17 of 29 (768129)
09-08-2015 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Jon
09-07-2015 11:12 PM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
Then why are you promoting his views?

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Jon, posted 09-07-2015 11:12 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Jon, posted 09-08-2015 1:35 PM Theodoric has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14505
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 18 of 29 (768137)
09-08-2015 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Omnivorous
09-06-2015 10:16 AM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
quote:
pity this busy monster, manunkind,

not.



e.e. cummings
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Omnivorous, posted 09-06-2015 10:16 AM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 29 (768158)
09-08-2015 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Theodoric
09-08-2015 8:15 AM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
I wasn't promoting his views as a scientist, so whether he's a good scientist or not doesn't have much bearing on the point I was making.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Theodoric, posted 09-08-2015 8:15 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Theodoric, posted 09-08-2015 3:05 PM Jon has responded

  
Theodoric
Member (Idle past 79 days)
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 20 of 29 (768161)
09-08-2015 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Jon
09-08-2015 1:35 PM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
Then why should we put any credence on anything he has to say on a scientific subject?
Especially from a person that is a known liar and manipulator of facts.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Jon, posted 09-08-2015 1:35 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Jon, posted 09-08-2015 4:16 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 29 (768165)
09-08-2015 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Theodoric
09-08-2015 3:05 PM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
Then why should we put any credence on anything he has to say on a scientific subject?

We shouldn't.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Theodoric, posted 09-08-2015 3:05 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Theodoric, posted 09-08-2015 5:20 PM Jon has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7421
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 22 of 29 (768166)
09-08-2015 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Jon
09-07-2015 12:33 PM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
Lomborg's taken plenty of flack for his views, and while his book is no masterpiece, he has a point with many of the things he says. And the spirit behind his argument, that we should be using our resources to improve people's lives as best we can instead of easing our conscience about the environment, is not off the mark.

At least in the US, we spend way more money building machines and maintaining armies that are meant to kill people in 3rd world countries. 3rd world countries also lack infrastructure that is required to move them towards better economies. Many times, this infrastructure is limited as much by history as it is by local geography. Not every country is blessed with the Great Plains.

There are also win-win situations, such as moving away from economically volatile fuels to sustainable sources like nuclear.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Jon, posted 09-07-2015 12:33 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Jon, posted 09-08-2015 7:56 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member (Idle past 79 days)
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 23 of 29 (768167)
09-08-2015 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Jon
09-08-2015 4:16 PM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
I am doubly confused why then you brought him and his writings up.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Jon, posted 09-08-2015 4:16 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Jon, posted 09-08-2015 7:48 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 29 (768172)
09-08-2015 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Theodoric
09-08-2015 5:20 PM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
If you read what I wrote, you wouldn't be confused.

As I said, Lomborg's work is no masterpiece and the man is no genius (I was pretty critical of his book in my Amazon review, but I won't go into it here). What I was mainly bringing up in relation to his views is the value in his idea of analyzing the costs and benefits of environmental policy and understanding that the real value behind maintaining environmental quality is to improve and preserve human life and so EQ improvements can be weighed against the costs and benefits of other measures aimed at improving and preserving human life.

The benefits to humanity of living on only half the inhabitable globe are far outweighed by the costs of doing soeven if it would make the environment a happier place.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Theodoric, posted 09-08-2015 5:20 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 29 (768174)
09-08-2015 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Taq
09-08-2015 4:23 PM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
At least in the US, we spend way more money building machines and maintaining armies that are meant to kill people in 3rd world countries.

Indeed

Though many Third World countries aren't much better when it comes to warring on one another (or themselves).

3rd world countries also lack infrastructure that is required to move them towards better economies.

Infrastructure can be built.

Many times, this infrastructure is limited as much by history as it is by local geography. Not every country is blessed with the Great Plains.

What's so great about the Great Plains? (And don't forget, many parts of the Great Plains were once Great Forests.)

Edited by Jon, : No reason given.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Taq, posted 09-08-2015 4:23 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16978
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 26 of 29 (830009)
03-20-2018 7:40 AM


Last Male Northern White Rhino Dies
Not quite the right thread, but close enough. From BBC News: Sudan, last male northern white rhino, dies in Kenya

Sudan, 45 and elderly by rhino standards with a host of health problems, was put down by veterinarians yesterday. There are only two females left, so IVF is the only hope for preserving the species.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by caffeine, posted 03-20-2018 2:38 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2766
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 27 of 29 (830051)
03-20-2018 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Jon
09-07-2015 6:24 PM


Re: Altruism or just Truism
Ask any man starving in Africa whether he'd prefer seeing the jungles ploughed over and planted with food or the Earth not get a couple degrees warmer.

Thing is if you plough the jungle to plant crops it will turn in to a desert, The reason it rains every noon in the jungle is because there is a jungle.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Jon, posted 09-07-2015 6:24 PM Jon has not yet responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1417
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 28 of 29 (830057)
03-20-2018 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Percy
03-20-2018 7:40 AM


Re: Last Male Northern White Rhino Dies
Sudan, 45 and elderly by rhino standards with a host of health problems, was put down by veterinarians yesterday. There are only two females left, so IVF is the only hope for preserving the species.

If it makes you feel any better, nobody treated the northern population as a distinct species prior to a few years ago, while the southern population is a conservation success story. From being presumed extinct in the late nineteenth century there are now more 20,000 of them - the most populous of living rhino species.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Percy, posted 03-20-2018 7:40 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 03-21-2018 4:01 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14505
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 29 of 29 (830117)
03-21-2018 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by caffeine
03-20-2018 2:38 PM


Re: Last Male Northern White Rhino Dies
caffeine writes:

If it makes you feel any better, nobody treated the northern population as a distinct species prior to a few years ago, while the southern population is a conservation success story. From being presumed extinct in the late nineteenth century there are now more 20,000 of them - the most populous of living rhino species.


We used to hear that a certain species was "extinct in Canada". No word on whether or not it was extinct three feet away in the US.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by caffeine, posted 03-20-2018 2:38 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
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