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Author Topic:   Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 508 of 993 (799208)
02-08-2017 4:46 AM
Reply to: Message 505 by Riggamortis
02-08-2017 4:07 AM


Re: The reality of why we need to restrict Muslim entry into the US
Islam's bloody history isn't too hard to find out about. Mohammed spread it by violence and murder. Then they set out to conquer the world, got through much of Eastern Europe before they were pushed back. Don't want peace with Israel, but want Israel gone, period. No secret, they've said it many times. America is "The Great Satan" because of our immorality, not our military actions. But Christians and Jews are to be killed: First the Saturday people, meaning the Jews, and then the Sunday people, meaning Christians. Nothing to do with any military action, it's written in their books. The entire world is to become Allah's, that's their agenda.
I've posted quite a bit on this before and maybe I'll do it again eventually but I'm not up to it right now. Meanwhile check out Jihad Watch:
Sucuri WebSite Firewall - Access Denied

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 509 of 993 (799209)
02-08-2017 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 506 by PaulK
02-08-2017 4:21 AM


Re: The reality of why we need to restrict Muslim entry into the US
nonsequitur

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by PaulK, posted 02-08-2017 4:21 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 510 by PaulK, posted 02-08-2017 4:54 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 511 of 993 (799211)
02-08-2017 4:59 AM
Reply to: Message 510 by PaulK
02-08-2017 4:54 AM


Re: The reality of why we need to restrict Muslim entry into the US
Now snark, insinuation and ad hominem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 510 by PaulK, posted 02-08-2017 4:54 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 514 of 993 (799215)
02-08-2017 5:17 AM
Reply to: Message 499 by Dr Adequate
02-07-2017 10:58 PM


The new fascism
bribe them all with his Jew Gold.
This is slander, it's positively evil to insinuate such a thing. It's the new fascism of the Left, instead of racist slurs it's accusations of racism. It's just as evil and has just as much potential to generate violence against the hated class. Which we are seeing in all the anti-Trump violence.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-07-2017 10:58 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by bluegenes, posted 02-08-2017 5:36 AM Faith has replied
 Message 516 by Riggamortis, posted 02-08-2017 6:56 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 521 of 993 (799239)
02-08-2017 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 520 by RAZD
02-08-2017 9:51 AM


Re: The reality of why we need to restrict Muslim entry into the US
RAZD, I find your reasoning to be extremely bizarre.
I myself was going to mention that after we defeated Germany and Japan we accepted many Germans and japanese into the country because we had no reason to fear that they would retaliate against us after they were here, as there is every reason to suppose Muslims would when they are in a position to do so -- which that video I posted was intended to show. Because Germany and Japan are civilized countries that are not ruled by a totalitarian ideology that seeks the death of people who disagree with it. They assimilate and become genuinely American.
I know you are all in denial about it, but Muslims do not assimilate if they are true to their ideology, they form communities isolated from the culture they've entered, and wait until they have enough population to attempt a coup -- unless they have fallen away from their religion, and often it's hard to know because they then have to fear for their own lives.
As for beheadings, accidents compared to murder by fanatics? What?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2017 9:51 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 522 of 993 (799240)
02-08-2017 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 519 by RAZD
02-08-2017 9:30 AM


Re: Gotta love those double standards.
From everything I've read Sessions has an excellent civil rights record. This accusation of racism is false.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by RAZD, posted 02-08-2017 9:30 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 523 of 993 (799241)
02-08-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 517 by jar
02-08-2017 7:41 AM


Re: The new fascism
We're not clueless, jar, we are applying the MAIN characteristics of fascism where they belong, on the Left, rejecting the standard definition in terms of political ideology, which is falsely and viciously slung against American conservatives, who share none of that political ideology and certainly none of the totalitarianism that is characteristic of both fascism and today's Left.
Your attempt to pin fascism on Trump supporters or America in general is a vile lie, all of it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by jar, posted 02-08-2017 7:41 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by jar, posted 02-08-2017 12:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 524 of 993 (799242)
02-08-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 516 by Riggamortis
02-08-2017 6:56 AM


Re: The new fascism
There's nothing funny about insinuating that someone is anti-Semitic. If it had anything to do with conspiracy theories it would be applied to something I said that could be interpreted as a conspiracy theory. But then too it would be slander.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by Riggamortis, posted 02-08-2017 6:56 AM Riggamortis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 551 by Riggamortis, posted 02-08-2017 8:48 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 525 of 993 (799243)
02-08-2017 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 515 by bluegenes
02-08-2017 5:36 AM


Re: The true Faith
Why don't YOU go hang out in a Wahhabi Muslim enclave?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by bluegenes, posted 02-08-2017 5:36 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 530 by bluegenes, posted 02-08-2017 12:47 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 531 of 993 (799250)
02-08-2017 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by bluegenes
02-08-2017 12:47 PM


Re: The true Faith
Somebody should call you out for your ad hominem lies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by bluegenes, posted 02-08-2017 12:47 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 532 by bluegenes, posted 02-08-2017 1:05 PM Faith has replied
 Message 533 by Theodoric, posted 02-08-2017 1:06 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 534 of 993 (799253)
02-08-2017 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by bluegenes
02-08-2017 1:05 PM


Re: The true Faith
No comment on the topic? Just lies about me personally? Nothing to say about the video I posted perhaps, or any of the other references I gave in that same post? I think you really should go visit that Iraqi town the Marine was talking about. I'm sure you'd enjoy it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by bluegenes, posted 02-08-2017 1:05 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by bluegenes, posted 02-08-2017 4:32 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 544 of 993 (799273)
02-08-2017 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by bluegenes
02-08-2017 4:32 PM


Re: The true Faith
Faith writes:
No comment on the topic?
I am on the topic.
No, the person, the poster, is not the topic.
I'm pointing out, in my own sweet way, that you have much more in common with people from the conservative religious cultures that you want to ban from entry than most people in this thread.
Again, I, the poster, is not the topic. Also, that is a lie. Perhaps you don't know it is a lie but you should if you've followed anything I've said about Islam. It is false to compare Christianity with Islam in any way at all, even if there are superficial similarities. The religions are the exact opposite of each other in just about every way.
Faith writes:
Just lies about me personally?
What lies? You know how to quote, so why not do it?
See above. Basically what you are suggesting is that I move to a country where I would be subjugated, subjected to violence and probably death. "Lie" may not be quite the right word for such a hateful suggestion. Of course I don't believe you had that in mind but you should have because that's the likely thing that would happen.
Faith writes:
Nothing to say about the video I posted perhaps, or any of the other references I gave in that same post?
The guy making the video asks the wrong question. He should be asking why, if the Iraqi army had recently invaded America and killed a lot of people, might it be difficult for Iraqi soldiers to walk around an American town freely in the aftermath without being lynched.
For the sake of answering that ridiculous idea I wish he had asked it in a way to clarify that too. But I suspect he KNEW the reason and it had nothing to do with anything that actually happened, it's about the ideology of jihad and he knew it. The problem is that you like so many others know nothing about the history of Islam so you project western attitudes on them. Except for their proclivity for beheading people they object to of course.
Faith writes:
I think you really should go visit that Iraqi town the Marine was talking about. I'm sure you'd enjoy it.
I have walked around many Arabic towns, surrounded by Muslims, and I'm fine. But, unlike the marines, I was unarmed, and hadn't been involved in killing whole swathes of the local population.
I'm sure there are different towns in different parts of the Middle East and they differ from each other in their proclivity to violence against Americans. But I should have made it clear he's an ex-Marine who stayed in Iraq as a contractor. I saw a headline somewhere earlier that said he's been evacuated from the country because of death threats since the video. And the question he asked was how an AMERICAN would be treated, not a Marine.
BG writes:
As for the main topic, I agree with you on some things. Like, for example, that sovereign governments should be able to deny entry to anyone they want to for whatever reason.
Hooray.
However, if members of the population disagree, they've every right to campaign for change.
That's fine with me, as long as it is done legally, and as long their "campaign" doesn't involve beating people up and breaking into buildings and setting fires.
I also think that the argument about Trump's directive being unconstitutional on the freedom of religion basis is probably wrong, but then I'm no expert on American law.
You're right, it's wrong, and thanks.
I also think his ban is clumsy. I'd be much more interested if he actually did try to do what he said he would while campaigning, and temporarily ban all Muslims, not because I think that's a good idea, but because it would be interesting to see what happened then, constitutionally speaking.
I don't have an opinion. I assumed he was doing whatever he COULD do to fulfill his promise.
If he did try it, it wouldn't last for long, for practical reasons. Remember, America does a hell of a lot of trade with the Muslim world, and Trump knows this, and he will not want to damage the U.S. economy.
I don't know.
The rather futile gesture he has made may just be to please his voters, and you should be aware, Faith, that he may not really be interested in doing what you really want, just appearing to do something.
I've had time to be convinced the man is sincere.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by bluegenes, posted 02-08-2017 4:32 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 545 of 993 (799274)
02-08-2017 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Modulous
02-08-2017 6:57 PM


Re: sovereignty
Sovereign governments CAN deny entry to anyone they want for whatever reason. Pretty much by definition.
The issue here is that Donald Trump is not a sovereign government. He is the head of a single branch of a government. And that sovereign government has instituted rules regulating what they and their agents can do with regards to accessing the United States.
In summary - the President can only act within the powers he has through Congress, and whether or not he is so doing is decided by the judiciary. A rewrite of the INA, an amendment to the Constitution could both give him the power to exclude Muslims or gays or people that don't like Trump's hair - as long as the Judiciary declares it kosher given the state of the laws at that time.
In short - the United States of America doesn't presently will the exclusion of gays or Muslims or Hindus or women or Chinese people.
Trump was acting under a law that is about as simple and clear as it is possible to get, that gives the President, nobody else, the President alone, the power to restrict the entry of any alien or aliens as he -- he and only he -- determines the need for the sake of national security.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Modulous, posted 02-08-2017 6:57 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 546 by Modulous, posted 02-08-2017 7:35 PM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 547 of 993 (799277)
02-08-2017 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Modulous
02-08-2017 7:35 PM


Re: sovereignty
That's basically what I said: The President has the power, but it is limited by the Constitution and the Legislature (for example INA 1965) and the interpretation of those limits is arbitrated by the Judiciary.
In the case of an established written law, it has already been through whatever input is legally required for a law to become law; there is no further input required. There is no further limit to be considered. The law says the President has the power, and that's it. No other input is required, and the attempts to interfere with his action are NOT Constitutional, they are illegal, serving only the narrow political interests of Leftist ideology.
There is nothing to discuss about this. The law is simple and clear and all the interference is nothing but political obstruction,
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Modulous, posted 02-08-2017 7:35 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by Modulous, posted 02-08-2017 7:46 PM Faith has replied
 Message 553 by NoNukes, posted 02-08-2017 10:34 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 549 of 993 (799279)
02-08-2017 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 548 by Modulous
02-08-2017 7:46 PM


Re: sovereignty
Obama acted under the same law concerning the same nations. Objecting to Trump's action is just disgusting political obstructionism and all the hairsplitting talk talk talk about this that and the other only serves the same purpose. The law is clear. If the judiciary did not override it for Obama, to do so for Trump is just proof of their corruption and the demise of this nation if you ask me.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Modulous, posted 02-08-2017 7:46 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
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