Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith

By not twisting the word as you do and ignoring the sense in which it was used, as I clearly indicated.

When ISIS kills people it is absolutely murder. When God ordains death it is often judgment, although scripture also says He has other reasons, even the reason of sparing the righteous something worse.You unbelievers are so self-righteous. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Weird. What contradictions?

I don't know what you are talking about and you probably don't either. There is a huge difference between murder and God's justice. As for how "cold" I am about all this, I cry a lot all the time about misfortunes and sufferings I merely read about in the news. What do feelings about suffering have to do with the cause of the suffering anyway? Jeremiah wept over God's destructions of God's city and God's people, you seem to be having a problem not only distinguishing murder from justice but fact from value. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Y'all just delight in claiming I'm wrong about my own beliefs, don't you? Well, I'm not, but it's a lost cause trying to convince people who have no interest in learning anything.Here's the obvious for someone who won't care anyway: the word "evil" in the King James is an old English usage which means calamity, not evil as in the devil's work. And I made that very clear in my quote of course. Modern translations use other words like 'calamity" instead because that's what the original Hebrew means in our modern vocabulary.I made it very clear already though, there should be no need to say anything more, it's just that you all have to pretend you know better than Christians do.God's judgments are justice, that's why they're good. They hurt of course but justice is good.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I did not say that ills befall only those who deserve them. We live in a fallen world and judgment like 9/11 doesn't single people out. God's people for instance are warned to leave "Babylon" which is slated for judgment, "lest you partake of her plagues." I did mention that God also says some may die because He is sparing them something worse. I'd also mention that there are other reasons. Jesus made a point in Luke 13:4 of saying that the eighteen people killed by the fall of a tower were no more guilty than any others who die.The subject here has been murder versus judgment as a general contrast, not as a fine-tuned discussion of all the particulars involved. Judgment on a nation is a general judgment, individual situations are individual situations to be recognized separately.Pharoah was guilty anyway. Al Qaeda is guilty anyway. Calvinism is obviously too difficult a topic for a general discussion board like this one.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Yes God ordains everything, and it's all carefully calibrated in ways we can't possibly appreciate. There are different reasons for different events and different effects on different people even in the same event and so on. As I said, it is a difficult subject, and I don't claim to be good at discussing it, just certain that the evils you ascribe to Calvinism and to God are false. The difficulty is in the fact that God is so much higher than we, encompasses absolutely everything, that we are all "in" Him all the time and so on. There is no way to explain the Trinity, we simply see it in the Bible. Same with God's sovereignty, we can't understand it but He is in absolutely everything that happens. In general we can say that disasters to a nation are judgment on that nation, but in individual cases we often can't know anything for certain.Nobody likes the idea of judgment, nobody likes the idea of Hell, nobody likes the idea of sin for that matter, we'd rather think humanity is "good." But that isn't what the Bible says, it says we are fallen, which means prone to sin, prone to disobey God, and therefore always under God's wrath and subject to judgment. Jesus came to save us from that but of course if you deny it all there is nothing to be saved from and you can go on accusing Christians of believing in an evil God. Humility would mean owning that it is WE who are at fault, not God. That would also be safer than shaking your fist at God, which only brings more wrath on us.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Which is absolutely and completrely wrong. This is just your own human standards being misapplied to God. You don't understand God as I was saying, you cannot understand God, He is way way beyond our ability to comprehend. The Bible tells us whatever wew are able to understand about Him, and obviously to some extent more than we are able to understand.The fact is that although God is in charge of everything He is NOT responsible for what WE choose to do. That's just the way it is. That's clear from the Bible and you cannot impose your own crabbed view on it. The words "control" and "manipulate" are yours, not the Bible's. We act freely, we choose freely, and yet God ordains everything we think and do. As I said this cannot be understood by us. All we can do is learn what is said about God and about us, we can't make sense of it we can only learn it.And your insistence on judging God from your own finite fleshly fallen mind is WAY wrong. And this view of God is in the Bible, as you well know since you know that Pharoah is said to act on his own AND that God determines how he acts. That's not Calvinism, that's the Bible. It says something about the nature of God and about spiritual reality that we absolutely cannot comprehend.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So shoot me already. Get it over with. All you moralistic judgmental self-righteous know-it-alls who refuse to understand any of this just do your damnedest and get rid of all of us who see things the way I'm trying to describe. Of COURSE I see how difficult this is for you, you're all stubborn people who refuse to try to learn something that is beyond you or beyond any of us. Bleagh. You just go on judging God by your puny fallen standards. Bleagh. Line us up and shoot us. We'll be better off than trying to deal with you all.

Just more evidence of how utterly incorrigibly self-righteously wrong you are and everybody else here and how utterly futile and ugly is discussion on this subject.I get so worn out from being accused of evils that are so far from anything I've thought or done in my life. It's exhausting, it's depressing. I don't even know how anyone is capable of thinking such things.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

No you may not suggest it. The strange things you all impute to Calvinism are accusatory, unjustified, unfair and just plain crazy.

It wasn't Calvinists who flew planes into the WTC, it isn't Calvinists who go around cutting people's heads off in the name of "Allah," Calvinists aren't warmongers as a class, these accusations are nasty, mean, stupid, unthinking, stupid stupid stupid and worse than stupid.The problem is all you accusers and fingerpointers simply refuse to admit that God's sovereignty is beyond your comprehension, your comparison with Islam is worse than ridiculous, you don't know what you are talking about, you are imputing evils to innocent people and you really are some kind of crazy in the head.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Calvinism is NOT an evil doctrine at whatever level it is believed and practiced. It is simply hard to understand because God is hard to understand. All Calvin did was elaborate what he found in scripture about God's sovereignty. But we're accused of all kinds of evils and don't tell me I'm not because I've been blasted by accusations at EvC for all kinds of reasons based only on my beliefs. Then just read the stuff about how evil what I've been saying on this thread is. This is crazy, crazy, crazy, mean and stupid. Again, Calvinists do not fly planes into buildings or chop off people's heads or do anything but live quiet Christian lives but you'd think we did worse than that to read the stupidities on this thread.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Some rather well known theologians disagree with you, the best of the best as a matter of fact: List of Calvinist and Reformed Theologians

I have no idea what you are going on about since it looks to me like I said nothing whatever to you and was responding to something GDR said. However, I'd LOVE to take a very very very long break from EvC as soon as I possibly can manage it, and YOUR extremely strange rant is an added motivator. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.