In the begining...... nothing.... unless infinite past.

The Omnipresent Law of the Universe
By: Guido ArbiaAccording to the Big Bang Theory, the beginning of the universe began with a colossal explosion which apparently came out of no where. In other words, in the beginning of time, there was no existing thing, but then out of this nothingness came existence packaged with physical laws and the material which was in the universe evolved into highly advance systems to produce everything around us including us.However, this raises a red flag in my mind. If you rest a ball on the table with no external force acting on that ball to move it, that ball should hold position. There would be no reason why that ball should suddenly decide to move from one location to another.Well, if the universe has an absolute beginning then that means that at one point there was no universe. At one point, there was nothing. No physical laws, forces, or cosmological constants existed, and according to a lot of recent theories and books, the laws of the universe even, had a beginning.Now, here is where the rested ball analogy comes into play. If something is the way it is without any thing external acting upon it to cause it to change, it will remain as it is. So, if in the beginning there was nothing, then there should continue to be nothing. The only possible way for there to be something is if there was a physical law that said that something can exist.This physical law itself would then need to come from some place. This physical law could not have sprang into existence though. If there are no laws, then there will never be laws. Therefore, in order for 1 law to be present it must have always existed, because if not, it won't get a chance to.OK, so now we have the understanding of the concept that there must have been a law extending into infinite past which would allow time and space and matter. Without this law, no law would ever come, and no matter would ever come, because if my car is green, it will stay green until someone changes it. So if the world is void, and no forces exist to change it, it shall remain void. This is why a past everlasting force must have existed to begin the universe.Now, there must have been an exact point in time in which the universe as we know began to exist. This law is what is required in order for the universe to come into existence in the first place. It seems as though this law would just pick a random point in time and say, exist. If this is true, then maybe this law is not being random, perhaps there is a chance that is has made the decision to create, because why just suddenly create now. Why not 50 years ago?This law would have begun our universe. We would have eventually come, packaged with the human consciousness. This law must have been capable of producing the physical laws and entities required to produce consciousness. If this is so, then isn't it likely that this law would be a source of consciousness itself? And if this law is a source of consciousness itself, then can't this law be conscious.In conclusion, based on all the logical evidence presented, it is possible that since infinite past, although hard to comprehend, could have held a law witch was conscious of itself and was able to make decisions, such as to create the universe. According to the logic, we are forced to draw this conclusion, because there is no way that anything will happen without something causing it to happen. To assume this would be to assume that your computer will suddenly transform into a cat without reason. Without a cause, there can be no effect.Therefore either god is real and:
1. Caused the big bang,
2. Created the world in 6 days. (My prefered belief) or
3. Did it another way.Sources about what the BB is:
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.htmlThis message has been edited by Guidosoft, 03-19-2005 08:20 AMThis message has been edited by Guidosoft, 03-19-2005 06:39 PM

* Guido checks watch.... again.

Okay.Your OP is something over 1300 words long. There are a significant number of spelling errors. The grammar is terrible. You wander off into discourse that is only parenthetically related to the topic. There is no clear statement of purpose or point to the thread. There are major misstatements of fact.Guido.You seem a bright and creative young kid. Please accept this in the manner in which it is intended.Your OP looks like the work of a 13 year old. That's not a problem as long as it's taken in context. But you are debating, as an equal, with many who frankly, have made it somewhat further along the education path.For your contributions, and I believe you can and will make contributions, to be taken seriously, you need to work hard to hide the fact that you're a kid.Start by doing a cut & paste into a good word processor. Catch the obvious spelling errors. Next address the grammatical problems.Once those two tasks are out of the way, try to reduce your subject into five lines or less. This is to make sure YOU understand what you're asking and that you will be able to convey that to old, slow duffers such as myself. Remember, effective communication requires that the speaker modify his presentation to fit the learning style of the listener.Next, look at some of the basic tenets and assumptions. Is the Big Bang theory based on a belief that something came from nothing? Does it assume that there was a time when there was nothing?Finally, rewrite your OP. Condense it removing anything that does not further discussion.

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Do you mind if I completley re-write the post?

Of course not. But I'd suggest that you still follow the guidelines I listed above. They will help you prepare a much better post. Let any of know if we can help you in anyway. Remember, tips you pick up here in writing a good OP will pay real dividends in class.

OK, it probably sux like rotten hell, but I re-wrote it in easy word, and I tried to compress it, but I couldn't seem to express my point without elaborating to that extent, and even now, I am not sastified with my elaboration. It feels incomplete and un-thourough, not fully explaining all that I had wish to point out, and help to comprehend.Was my post in your point of view, explamatory enough? I don't feel as if it is stable enough to withstand debate as it is, although the basic argument should be rock solid if only elaborated properly, witch I feel has not been done.

It'smuch, much better.One more thing I would like you to explore.You begin with:"According to the Big Bang Theory, the beginning of the universe began with a colossal explosion which apparently came out of no where. Another (In other ???) words, in the beginning of time, there was no existing thing, but then out of this nothingness came existence packaged with physical laws and the material which was in the universe evolved into highly advance systems to produce everything around us including us."Does the Big Bang Theory really say that "in the beginning of time, there was no existing thing,..."?That is one of the first places where folk will jump on you. Check your sources to make sure that really is part of the BB Theory.Secondly, ask your self a question.If we actually proved that the Universe did begin as depicted in the BB, could you say "Oh, that's how GOD did it"?

If the universe began with an explosion out of nowhere, which IS one version of the big bang, then before this explosion it is only logical to assume that there was nothing.Edit: I added..... A source.Oh and yes, of course you could say thats how God did it, because no matter which God or religion, I have come to the conclusion that there is at least some God which exists. However, I myself believe in the literal view of the Bible, so I believe in the God of the O & N Testaments.This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 03-19-2005 09:26 AM

UH hello?... Mr. Jar?

Patience Grasshopper....even the great AdminJar must sleep now and then.If you haven't been answered in a day or two THEN make some noise.

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AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Guido! Paisan! Around here, they do not have any reverance for the Old or the New testaments. They think that the book was written by humans and is full of errors. Sometimes I find that its easier to just wing it with "God concepts" because everyone at EvC believes that the original source of everything is human wisdom.They would say that God was imagined by humans who wrote a book or two about Him rather than God imagining and creating us first.Of course, I believe that there is a literal spiritual war going on. The facts of the supernatural are only facts perceived internally by each of us and thus not subject to empirical verification.(The Devil don't want to get a rapsheet.) I am a Christian believer based on many internal experiences with God. I believe that God imagined us and knew us from before the foundations of the world. He knew how the entire scenario was gonna go down! Even now, He patiently awaits the moment when He again will step in and set the path straight.In my opinion and belief, anyway! This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-19-2005 09:38 AM

LOL! You have met Asgara!She is not a strict "Believer" as I am, yet she is an intelligent and smart lady! Check out her webpage. By the Way, as a Christian, I am never offended when she calls herself "The Queen"! Right, Asgara? You may be a bit of a whimsical legend in your own mind, but you never demand that we worship there...as long as we do our chores and keep the message board nice and tidy!

I personally think you have not yet fixed the OP up, for example it still reads "Another words" when I bet what you meant was "In other words" and I think you have a few really glaring errors that will get you slammed from post #1, but if you think it's ready and you're ready to take the heat, I'll promote it.Do you want it in "Big Bang and Cosmology"?

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Yea, I tink i like yo pmote irts/

Okay. Up it goes. I am going to add a first post to it asking people to reply to only one of your points and to limit discussion until you feel that issue is settled before moving on.In addition, if it gets overwhelming, ask one of the Admins and we'll shut it down temporarily to give you time to marshall your responses.Here goes. Good luck.