Rare debate between 2 heavy-weights on God's existence

Believe it or not, 2 heavy-weights have decided to put their big ego's on the line in a debate on the existence of God. Why don't debates of this quality happen more often? See Oops! We ran into some problems. | TheologyOnline

Never heard of either of them, but I will read the debate. Thx.------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

And God can do this and can do that and is not able to make me believe, than he is either not as mighty as it is claimed by Christians or he just does not care. In either case he is not worth believing. Another possibility is that of predestination. In that case I am doomed, but can do absolutely nothing against it, because it is God's will.

Raha... it's not as though God wants to make you believe. He doesn't want a church of mind-controlled zombies, but rather those who love Him because of His beauty, out of their own free will. That's why He doesn't use His endless powers to force you to believe.
You get a free choice. Once on God's side, you're His full stop. (His redemption cannot be undone. Romans chapter 8. Simple as that.) If you die on the enemy's side, you're... well, you know. Full stop. Simple, concise, and a completely free choice.
Hope that clears this up.

defenderofthefaith, So why does he throw non-believers into hell? Sounds like a church full of mind controlled zombies are exactly what he wants. This reminds me of a bumper sticker, "You don't pray in my school, & I won't think in your church".How can you love him for his beauty if he doesn't reveal himself. As far as you are aware God might have fallen through the ugly tree hitting every branch on the way down. How do you know if he hasn't revealed himself. Certainly his alleged proclamations in the bible don't lead me to think he is morally beautiful. The death sentence for not resting every seventh day, the aforementioned hurling people he "loves" into an eternity of suffering.Mark------------------
"I can't prove creationism, but they can't prove evolution. It is [also] a religion, so it should not be taught....Christians took over the school board and voted in creationism. That can be done in any school district anywhere, and it ought to be done." Says Kent "consistent" Hovind in "Unmasking the False Religion of Evolution Chapter 6."

So, no free will after you die?

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The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

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God does not wish anyone to be cast into punishment. If He enjoyed doing that, He wouldn't have written a book telling us about Him and sent His Son to take the penalty that we would all otherwise have suffered. Recall "Greater love hath no man than that he lays down his life for a friend". Well, some of us might just be brave enough to die for a friend, but not usually for an enemy. Yet this is precisely what Jesus did. He died for His malicious enemies... "And the soldiers twisted a crown of thorns and put it on His head, and they put on Him a purple robe. Then they said, "Hail, King of the Jews!" And they struck Him with their hands." (John 19:2, 3.)God reveals Himself in His creation, the Bible, and through all the interesting things that just can't be explained any other way. Take a look at any natural object and you see God's trademark. Either the platypus evolved from about a dozen different creatures at once, or God decided to have a little fun.God is not the origin of all the sin in this world, and the sin unfortunately requires eternal punishment, for God's nature is infinitely righteous and cannot be reconciled with anything sinful. Despite Adam and Eve's heart-stopping mistake, He still had a way to bring us back to Him, and since blood is always required for the cleansing of sin (note sacrifices of Hebrews) then the perfect blood of God's Son, since He had done nothing wrong, could save all humanity. You can't forgive someone unless they say sorry first, so in order to receive the forgiveness of God one must believe that Jesus came down to die for us, call upon Jesus' name, and ask His forgiveness. He is then delighted to have another to add to all those He has saved. "...there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance." Luke 15:7Nor does He want any non-thinking zombies:"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defence to everyone who asks a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;" 1 Peter 3:15

Good one!

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God does not wish anyone to be cast into punishment. If He enjoyed doing that, He wouldn't have written a book telling us about Him and sent His Son to take the penalty that we would all otherwise have suffered.

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How about all those people who lived before Jesus? Or the ones who live now who have never heard of him? Does God enjoy chucking them into hellfire?

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Take a look at any natural object and you see God's trademark.

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God is not the origin of all the sin in this world

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Can't have it both ways. Which is it?

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He is then delighted to have another to add to all those He has saved.

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Saved from what? A punishment he set up?You know what would be a really easy way for God to save people from Hell? If he stopped condemning people to Hell.------------------
Ms. Krabappal:Are there any more questions?
Bart:Yes, how would I go about making a half man half monkey creature?
Krabapal:I'm sorry Bart, that would be playing God.
Bart:God schmod! I want my monkey man!

This one is good too. ------------------
Life has no meaning but itself.

Or it's just one of the only representatives of a rare order of animals. Unfortunately fossil evidence of Monotreme evolution is sparse, but the mix of mamalian and reptillian features suggest that they branched off from mammals shortly after mammals branched off from the reptiles.As to the beak, its similarity to bird beaks is misleading, simply an example of convergent evolution - an adaption to freshwater life. Intrestingly juvenile platypus do have teeth but loose them as they age. Also jawbones from suspected platypus ancestors carry teeth.

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Either the platypus evolved from about a dozen different creatures at once, or God decided to have a little fun.

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Which dozen?Actually a platypus combines characteristics of exactly 2 classes: mammals and reptiles. The beak does not resemble a duck's beak except superficially. Not-so-suprisingly, this fits in with the evolutionary account of the origin of mammals quite well.

Dear Dan Carroll,God created this earth without sin. It was the disobedience of man himself that brought sin into the world (Genesis 3). Thus, it is not God Who condemns people to hell. Rather, it is humanity itself, by dint of its sinful nature. God does not want anyone to be thrown into hell (see Scripture reference in my last thread) but it's just not as simple as forgiving us straight off. God is completely holy and He cannot have a relationship with sinners or He will deny His perfect nature. But he is also totally loving, so much that He was willing to take the only possible way out of the problem - to come to earth and take the penalty for all humankind's sins. Such a love has never before nor ever will again be equalled. Blood has always been a covering for sin, which is why the Hebrews in the Old Testament sacrificed an animal to redeem themselves from a sin. But what sort of blood could redeem everybody of every sin? Answer: The blood of a perfect being Who had never sinned Himself. That's why Jesus had to die to cleanse us of our sins."And the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin" 1 John 1:7BTW: As for the people who never heard of Jesus, actually everybody has. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night reveals knowledge." (Psalm 19:1-2.) For those who haven't actually heard the message of God's love and redemption, creation itself witnesses to the existence of God. Open your eyes outside and you're probably looking a testimony to God.

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God created this earth without sin. It was the disobedience of man himself that brought sin into the world

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And who created man?

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God does not want anyone to be thrown into hell (see Scripture reference in my last thread) but it's just not as simple as forgiving us straight off. God is completely holy and He cannot have a relationship with sinners or He will deny His perfect nature.

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Mercy is imperfect?Waitwaitwait... did I say "mercy?" I'm sorry, I meant "not torturing people" is imperfect?If God doesn't want a relationship with my sinful self, I'm perfectly happy to go our separate ways. Of course, sending me to Hell would certainly be having a relationship with me.

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But he is also totally loving, so much that He was willing to take the only possible way out of the problem - to come to earth and take the penalty for all humankind's sins.

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That would be, of course, the only way other than simply not sending people to Hell.You've said already that God doesn't want us to come hang out with him after we die unless we become holy. Excellent, but why does he have to torture us if we're not fit for Heaven? You'd think an omnipotent, omniscient being could avoid falling into a false dilemna fallacy.

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As for the people who never heard of Jesus, actually everybody has.

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Yeah, just don't go visiting those tribal cultures to check up on that. They're really committed to the lie.How about those stillborn babies, or the people who lived before Jesus? Did God love them?

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For those who haven't actually heard the message of God's love and redemption, creation itself witnesses to the existence of God. Open your eyes outside and you're probably looking a testimony to God.

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I thought you had to accept Jesus. That's different from acknowledging God, right?

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God is not the origin of all the sin in this world, and the sin unfortunately requires eternal punishment, for God's nature is infinitely righteous and cannot be reconciled with anything sinful.

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Something that I've always wondered about the whole system... what's the point of an eternal punishment? I mean, you punish a child hoping that in the future you won't have to punish them anymore, the punishment will lead to the child avoiding the behavior that you are punishing it for.If God truly loved us, why the ETERNAL TORMENT? Why not a punishment and then another shot at it? Of course, even that would be unfair since God isn't really talking to us these days except through his human voices who can't seem to agree on what exactly is God's true word. Ah well.