Reciprocal Prayer - For Mike and Buz

In earlier threads, most recently in the Mormon thread, Mike and Buz have claimed to have had prayer experiences in which their prayers have been answered by God.At two points in my life, once under the influence of psychedelic mushrooms, and the other while meditating (without so much as an aspirin in my system) I have had the distinct sensation of conversing with something other than myself. It was a non-verbal communication, made entirely of sense and intuition.These experiences came at points where my body was entirely focussed on elevating (or at least altering) my state of conciousness, either through external means (drugs) or internal (meditation.)I'd be interested to hear the specifics of both Mike and Buz's experiences with God-communication, and whether or not the experience was similar to my own. Anyone else who has one, throw it on as well.Now, as I implied in the Mormon thread, I do not think I was speaking with God (or gods) at those times. After a lot of reflection and thought on the experiences, it feels most like the only one I was communicating with was myself. But the self-examination took the form of a conversation with another person. This does not mean my goal is to disprove your prayer experiences, it's just something I thought I should get out of the way to begin with so it doesn't seem like I'm angling toward "AHA! WE HAD SIMILAR EXPERIENCES, AND MINE WASN'T RELIGIOUS! THAT MEANS THERE'S NO GOD!"I'm just interested in seeing if my experience is similar to yours.

I'm not sure if I should be posting this, because it's largely personal and I don't want to be attacked for my beliefs, but you seem to be sincere Dan...I will admit that I have had religious experiences. They were powerful enough to convince me that there was a higher being - I was an atheist at the time. I can only describe them as being aware, i.e. sensing the presence of something much greater than myself. I suppose that this isn't really similar to your experience, but I was meditating like you did. I must stress that I do not pray; I have always doubted that a higher being would appreciate such worship.Ok, I'm not explaining this very well. But that's my two cents anyway.The Rock Hound

No need to be embarrassed. I'd actually be interested to hear about your faith; you've made several references to a non-traditional, personal religion, and I've found myself curious as to the specifics.

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I can only describe them as being aware, i.e. sensing the presence of something much greater than myself. I suppose that this isn't really similar to your experience, but I was meditating like you did.

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It's somewhat similar to mine. Mine certainly felt at the time like an encounter with something higher than me and outside me. But the more I ponder the experiences, the more they seem like something higher than me but not separate, if that makes any sense. Not even overlapping, if that makes any sense. Just me.That's the heart of self-examination far as I'm concerned, whether God is involved or not. Finding something in yourself that is greater than what you are aware of, and striving towards it.

Maybe. I was pretty certain at the time that it was something separate from me - if you make no such distinction, well, who cares? I'm glad that someone else besides myself has experienced such things. I think anyone can train themselves to do it.I don't really like talking about my faith. It's more to do with the connotations attached to it - people tend to get the wrong idea, or make all kinds of assumptions... plus I live in Ireland. Anyone who's not Catholic or at least Christian don't really have it easy when it comes to religion - or at least I don't.I suppose if you really are that curious, I can discuss it over email. I'd rather not talk about it in the forum, that's all.The Rock Hound

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I think anyone can train themselves to do it.

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Agreed.

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I don't really like talking about my faith. It's more to do with the connotations attached to it - people tend to get the wrong idea, or make all kinds of assumptions...

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That's cool. I won't push it.

I've had the same sort of experiences, too - "presence of a higher power" sorts of feelings - in a couple of contexts. When I was trying to be religious, I got that feeling of someone *almost* communicating with me a few times - ideally at a High Church Episcopal service with really good pipe organ music. An essentially identical sense of awe, wonder, and "the other side" was pretty common with LSD, mescaline, or even really good grass. The last time I took LSD was particularly striking - "voices" that I knew at the time to be in my own head were telling me that that stuff was a Bad Idea. But I was pretty much conversing with the voices just like they were from outside.My own take on this is that either experience is the same electrical brain cascade. I've never tried a Cheyenne "vision quest", but from what I've read of such, it must be very similar.

Yup. And I think drugs are probably the shortest route to this state of mind I'm talking about, although not (in my opinion) the most efficient.The experience I reffered to in my first post is not the only time drugs have ever put me there, but it is the only time I've brought the experience back with me, if you know what I mean. It was a night when I took waaaaaay too much, and spent most of the evening cruising the cosmos, Silver Surfer style.When a meditation relies on an outside source, it's very easy to lose the meditative knowledge once the outside source wears off. On top of that, drugs make it very easy to lose the signal in the noise, what with all the kick-ass shit that's going on apart from the meditation.I don't mean any of this as an anti-drug statement, mind you. Just an ambivalent-about-drugs-for-the-purposes-of-meditation statement. To me, drugs make a good 101 course. They let you know what the state of mind feels like so you can achieve it later on your own.They also make for a good night's entertainment, but that's a whole other matter...

Er. I tend to avoid anything stronger than coffee or the occasional pint. I really think that you shouldn't have to resort to drugs in meditation - plus I'm against the use of illegal drugs apart from hash.Ok, I'm not all that open-minded about this, but I think a philosophy of clean living could benefit a lot of people. I also think that no one should have to take drugs to have fun.The Rock Hound

Well... sure, no one has to take drugs for fun or meditation. I also don't have to watch TV or read a comic or have sex with my girlfriend for fun, and I don't have to turn the lights off for meditation.But I find it helps. Mind you, I don't mean to shake you by the shoulders and say, "Damn it, Hound! Go do drugs, NOW!" Whatever works for you, you know?

Yeah, you too.BTW where's Mike and Buz? I thought they'd be around by now...

I dunno. Guys? Anything to weigh in with?

By the way, what is that hanging out of your avatar's mouth? Looks hand-rolled, whatever it is.[This message has been edited by Zhimbo, 11-06-2003]

Sorry guys, I was away for a day.
Usually when I come back there's something with my name on it. I think these are 'meditational' experiences rather than prayers. I have never taken drugs but I have meditated. In my advanced stages of meditation I felt very calm and 'seen' lights, kind of swirling around. They where very dull, personally I think it could have just been something I 'thought' I was seeing, or something emmited from my brain. Whatever they were, the more I meditated the easier it was to achieve the calmness. This is (I think) a natural process, but my mind is open, and I believe both Dan and Rockhound.P.s Nice avatar Rockhound![This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 11-06-2003]

I don't see how they are different from prayers. Do you simply talk when you pray? Or do you try to reach a higher being? No difference really.My other avatar vanished into the ether of the internet... I think the admin mentioned a bug or something. I got this one off Epilogue - Fantasy and Sci-fi at their best..

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I don't see how they are different from prayers. Do you simply talk when you pray?

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When I pray, yes I just talk. In the past when I meditated, I just breathed, lol. However I have to agree there is 'something' to meditation. Whether that's natural or not I just don't know.Nice website, noticed I changed mine to compete.