why is your religion the 'right' one?

Cult status is usually conferred on a religion/sect by the majority relgion/sect, a way of bad mouthing the competition.

messenjaH writes:

quote:

---

could atheists be considered a cult

---

How can something be a cult when there is no organization?If we go with the common use of "cult" meaning a certain band of people united under a religious philosophy, how can atheism possibly be a cult since it is not a religion but rather the absence of religion?------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

quote:

---

You label Christianity as a cult and yet you give no evidence as why it is one.

---

I would say that certain sects of Christianity resemble cults and certain aspects of cult-like behavior are pretty common among many Christian sects.Here's the list of cult characteristics I provided before:

quote:

---

The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.

---

The Pope?

quote:

---

The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

---

The Mormons are DEFINITELY preoccupied with bringing in new members, and there are many fundamentalist churches which prowl college campuses looking for converts.You don't see the Jews or the Bhuddists or the Hindus doing anything like that.

quote:

---

The group is preoccupied with making money.

---

The Catholics and the Mormons are pretty wealthy churches, as well as the televangelists which beg for money all the time.

quote:

---

Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

---

This is pretty common in most fundamentalist Christian churches, and in some more mainstream ones, too.By contrast, Jewish tradition expects and welcomes questioning.

quote:

---

Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

---

Don't know about this one.

quote:

---

The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).

---

The Mormons come close to this kind of control over it's members, and sometimes acheive it. Fundamentalist Protestant pastors can also get this controlling.

quote:

---

The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).

---

Isn't this what every Christian denomination thinks of itself?

quote:

---

The group has a polarized us- versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.

---

Many Christians I have come in contact with have this attitude to some extent.

quote:

---

The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).

---

.

quote:

---

The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).

---

.

quote:

---

The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.

---

LOL!! Guilt is Christianity's bread and butter!

quote:

---

Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.

---

This has happened to many people who have "found God".

quote:

---

Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.

---

Church 3 days a week, anyone?

quote:

---

Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

---

The Mormons clearly do this.[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 10-20-2003]

quote:

---

The Mormons are DEFINITELY preoccupied with bringing in new members, and there are many fundamentalist churches which prowl college campuses looking for converts.

​

The Catholics and the Mormons are pretty wealthy churches, as well as the televangelists which beg for money all the time.

​

This is pretty common in most fundamentalist Christian churches, and in some more mainstream ones, too.

​

The Mormons come close to this kind of control over it's members, and sometimes acheive it. Fundamentalist Protestant pastors can also get this controlling.

---

Prepare your "true scotsman" rebuttals now, people, beat the rush...

quote:

---

quote:

---

Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

---

Don't know about this one.

---

Intense prayer and worship are most certainly mind-altering. I think that, especially in the case of charismatic churches (with speaking in tongues, etc.), this one is definitely fulfilled. These methods are of a more positive nature than "denunciation" or "work routines," but I would still put them in the same category. It's a pretty broad statement, after all.

"The Catholics and the Mormons are pretty wealthy churches, as well as the televangelists which beg for money all the time." -schrafinatorYeah, I just love it how the Catholic Church I belong to found it absolutely nesscary to beg for money from the church to get these stained glass windows about 4 years ago, when they really should have saved the money to expand the church itself... oh I must add, they took down about 1/4 of these stained glass windows when the church was remodeled.
I overheard my mother and grandparents speaking about how back in the day, the Church would make listings of how much was donated by who, and who didn't donate anything at all and posted it... how nice, right?

Most of what you posted does not apply to what I believe but some things do.

quote:

---

--------------------------------------------------------------
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

​

Isn't this what every Christian denomination thinks of itself?

---

True.
Christianity doesn't say they are at a special or exalted status though.

quote:

---

---------------------------------------------------------------
The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

​

LOL!! Guilt is Christianity's bread and butter!

---

I am being controlled by christians. Argue with atheists. Argue with atheists. Argue with atheists.

quote:

---

---------------------------------------------------------------
The group has a polarized us- versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

​

Many Christians I have come in contact with have this attitude to some extent

---

That's because it's true. This entire forum is a prime example(built towards christianity), what maybe 5 christian posters here. Paul tells christians be not of the world...------------------
-chris[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 10-20-2003]

Hi Chris,I beg to differ - We are going to heaven because we have the grace of GodWe believe in a literal bible, those who believe differently from us are not "true Christians"Only those of us who believe in Christ will go to heaven.Those whom are destined for hell chose to not be a member of our group

---

The wording might not be exact, but the sentiment sure is.------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

If Paul means be not of the world in what areas does he refer to.It would seem to me that if you took that to an extreme it would be the breeding ground for paranoia.Do you avoid discussion with atheists because it will invoke doubts that would test your resolve or do you go with the idea that truth will out?

mesenjaH writes:

quote:

---

Christianity doesn't say they are at a special or exalted status though.

---

(*blink!*)You did not just say that, did you?Do you even know what the Great Schism was about? It still exists to this day because the Catholic church claims supremacy. The Orthdox, however, will have none of that as they know they follow the original intent.

quote:

---

I am being controlled by christians.

---

So give it up and we'll see how warm a reception you get.

quote:

---

Argue with atheists. Argue with atheists. Argue with atheists.

---

What does atheism have to do with anything? You seem to think that if one isn't a Christian, that makes one an atheist.What was it you were saying about not insisting upon "special or exalted status"?

quote:

---

Paul tells christians be not of the world...

---

So why are you here? Aren't you Christian?------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

First of all, it's not a group. I'm not part of any "group". It's not an "us". Everyone has a right to heaven not just "we". You're sending the wrong image about what some believe.Atheists exalted status at work:Everyone who believes in what we have no belief in are ignorant.You are wasting your lives worshipping a non existent god.Did we mention you guys are ignorant?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(You guys don't want me to find actual quotes do you?)------------------
-chris[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 10-22-2003]

Chris, First of all, I was referring to Fundamentalist Christianity as a whole, not of any one member of this group. (And yes it is a group - A number of individuals or things considered together because of similarities)Are you saying that anyone can go to heaven? Or only those that believe in the Christ story? Is there some other reason that all are not going to heaven other than they choose to not accept Christian beliefs? Are Christians who have no problem with evolution or the big bang wrong? Are they "true" Christians? How about Christians who believe that the majority of the Bible is metaphorical? Are the almost 1 billion Catholics worldwide wrong in their beliefs? How about the 15 million Jews or the 300 million Buddists or the 1.2 billion Muslims? How about the 800 thousand or so UUs? Is it only the 14% of the world who are non-religious, or the 66% of the world who are non-Christian?I personally have never said that anyone who doesn't believe as I do is ignorant. I have stated that some people are ignorant of the topic they are discussing. I have also never stated that they are wasting your lives. I do believe that people who attempt to convert me are wasting their time, unless all they are after is discourse.If you are arguing that "some" atheists have delusions of superiority, you won't get an argument from me...unless you are claiming that some Christians suffer from the same delusions.------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

I don't have all the answers, I discussed your first comment in an earlier post somewhere on here.Some christians do too of course. I try not to act that way and I certainly don't believe that.------------------
-chris

Hey MessenjaH.I just want to comment that I admire your ability to debate in open forum.I wish that I had had half the ability you show in going toe to toe with others when I was your age.
Salute bro'

Why is your religion the 'right' one?
Well.. the thing that occurs to me when speaking to people is that THAT one question is not the most important one. And I ask myself: how come?A lot of people really knows alot of their particular religion, but when it comes to why they are actually believing in this religion, they don't answer "well I've carefully studied all the other religions, and this is my choice" Instead the answer in general has something to do with the particular religion they are worshipping, like "the bible says that.." or "Through prayers I've realized that.."
The trend is that most people take on whatever religion is surrounding them, or whatever religion their relatives have. Why?My theory is that human beings have a need for a structure in their brain, something that will sort out and give answers to the big questions, so that they don't have to worry about them, and so they can feel secure and go on with their lives. So, if the first religion they encounter gives them those answers in a reasonably good way, there is no point in looking into other religions.It is also then understandable that people will defend their particular religion at all costs, since if they are proven wrong they will loose the security their religion provides.
Some people in this forum have said that if you dont believe, life is pointless.. but that does in no way justify that you should believe in a religion, it only shows that many humans need something to believe in, in order to function correctly.