Religion and the Rest of the World

First off I have been browsing the EvC forums for a couple of weeks and want to thank you guys for hurting my brain so much, I’ve enjoyed all of the interesting discussion.I am a firm believer in freedom of religion, as long as that religion does not hurt anyone. Saying that, I also believe that in the past thousand years religion has had a more of a negative influence on the human race rather than positive one. I understand how religious organizations have up lifted people in times of need but in most cases religion has caused those times of need. For example: During the Crusades millions of people, over hundreds of years, gave their lives fighting over a difference of religion, plain and simple. World War I and then World War II resulted from religious differences in the Balkan region. (World War II alone caused the death of over 50 million people) The Israeli- Palestinian conflict was a result of World War II, since the persecution of the Jews forced them to become displaced. A majority of the international problems that the world faces today are because Westernized religion (Catholics, Christians, Jews etc.) have such a polar relationship to the religions in the Middle East.Many of these conflicts have extremely simplified but for the sake of a good discussion I will leave them as is.With my view of the topic, the question is:If the world was to wake up tomorrow and all religions items and thoughts were gone, would the world be a better place? (assuming common sense is a constant)------------------
"Army: A body of men assembled to rectify the mistakes of the diplomats."
- Josephus Daniels

With the state of science education in this country, I'd say "no", because there'd be nothing but lawlessness for most people to replace religion. Most people have a hard time adopting a truly rational worldview.

Maybe the non-influence of religion would free up peoples minds to start becoming individuals rather than cattle in a heard. And therefore seeing people as humans rather than Christians or Muslims or Jews. There might be more lawlessness but less global war.

No, I don't think the world would become a better place without religion. Greediness and "that's mine!" still rule quite a number of peoples. Remove the god from the land disputes in the Middle East, and they'll be replaced with, "But our ancestors lived here for centuries and you'll never kick us off our land!"It's very easy to replace one authority with another. Just because god isn't telling you to do it anymore doesn't mean mom and dad won't take up the slack.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Rrhain At least they will have to take responsibilty for their own actions. Iwould think that psycholgically it is far more difficult to kill someone when you do not have the assurance that there is a reason or a reward involved.

Rrhain:"Remove the god from the land disputes in the Middle East, and they'll be replaced with, "But our ancestors lived here for centuries and you'll never kick us off our land!"I'm sorry to say that this still goes on in the world even with god and religion as a factor. The Balkan region, Israeli- Palestinian conflict, the IRA's evolvement on the Britain Island etc. Religion just gives a doctrine and reasons for fighting. It’s like the match and the powder keg, and in the world today the match is religion.

Maneuver responds to me:

quote:

---

quote:

---

Remove the god from the land disputes in the Middle East, and they'll be replaced with, "But our ancestors lived here for centuries and you'll never kick us off our land!"

---

​

I'm sorry to say that this still goes on in the world even with god and religion as a factor

---

I know. That's my point. Even if you take god out of the picture, there will still be just as much of a hatred of other people sufficient enough to kill them.

quote:

---

Religion just gives a doctrine and reasons for fighting.

---

And there are plenty of others.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

If it wasn't for the religious aspect, three of the powder kegs from the middle east would dissappear, namely: reduced settlements, reduced suicide bombings, and the Temple Mount.The settlements are pursued because the Torah says that this is the promised land; the settlers are nearly all religious radicals, (often speaking in heavy Brooklyn accents, BTW ). They know very well that their presence is an incitement - the settlements are built like medeval fortresses. Polls show that the majority of Israel would be willing to give up all settlements - even the long-term, heavily populated ones like Ariel, in exchange for peace. Some settlers moved to the settlements because they're heavily subsidized, so taxes are light and services are plentiful. However, they're mostly inhabited by people like the tens of thousands of pilgrims who used to regularly visit the grave of Baruch Goldstein).Suicide bombings: While it is certainly true that, at least in part, suicide bombings are related to the fact that to confront Israel is essentially suicidal anyway, it is impossible to deny the religious aspect of it as well. Often overemphasized is the "72 virgins" line, but there is generally an entire line of religious indoctrination - regular repeating of parts of the Quran that refer to self-sacrifice, encouraging discussion of the afterlife, etc.The Temple Mount: Al-Aqsa mosque and the former site of Solomon's temple would mean absolutely nothing without religion. Additionally, Jerusalem would cease to be a "holy city", and merely just an area with a land dispute.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

I hate to admit it. but I need to agree... alot of people can't be rational and have "common sense" Although I have emotions toward my own species(I would never kill another person). I have always suspected if there wasn't the threat of Hell people would just Kill...

"If the world was to wake up tomorrow and all religions items and thoughts were gone, would the world be a better place? (assuming common sense is a constant)"Definitely. If all religions were to be wiped out, maybe there would be some place for spirituality.

I'm not so sure. It seems to me that most people on this planet need to follow rules and need to be told what to do. Without that sort of control, people just wouldn't know what to do with themselves.Life is so much easier when you're not in control.

Some of you seem to be argueing that without the rules supplied by religion there would be greater lawlessness or disorder.I disagree. While religion has supplied rules it doesn't appear to me that it has kept everyone or even most in line. There is still a steady breaking of whatever rules the gods have been supposed to supply.

NosyNedI wonder if a proper study has ever been done of the beliefs of the people throughout history that have commited heinous crimes against fellow humans and just what the trend there would be as far as intensity of belief[i.e. moderate fundementalist]is concerned.One would also wonder what the morals of these people would reflect?

sidelined writes:

quote:

---

I wonder if a proper study has ever been done of the beliefs of the people throughout history that have commited heinous crimes against fellow humans and just what the trend there would be as far as intensity of belief[i.e. moderate fundementalist]is concerned.

---

The only one I have heard of is that the number of atheists in jail is much less than their presence in the general population. It appears that theists get into trouble with the law more often.However, I'm not sure just how good that information is since many a person in jail has a sudden conversion of faith. However, going to a fundamentalist religion doesn't mean one was an atheist to begin with.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

quote:

---

I'm sorry to say that this still goes on in the world even with god and religion as a factor. The Balkan region, Israeli- Palestinian conflict, the IRA's evolvement on the Britain Island etc. Religion just gives a doctrine and reasons for fighting. It’s like the match and the powder keg, and in the world today the match is religion.

---

Just to clarify: the IRA is involved in Ireland. That's kinda why it's called the Irish Republican Army.The Northern Ireland conflict is not being fought because of religion. There is a 'them or us' mentality between Catholics and Protestants, but otherwise it's happening because one side wants to remain part of the UK, and the other wants to be part of the Republic again. I personally think they're still fighting because they don't understand anything else.Sorry for butting in, but some Americans think that Ireland is still part of the UK - and saying that it is is just about the worst insult you can throw at us.The Rock Hound