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Author
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Topic: Gods Bible
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: 10-22-2002
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Re: Inspired
Why do you feel the need to repeat the 'Fall' myth to someone who already knows a great deal about it? Don't you know that repeating the Christian idea of sin (which, in case you don't know, is not the same as the Old Testament concept of sin) is intensely boring? What makes you assume that no one else knows this myth? Is there a more boring faith than Xianity? I'd rather watch the Jerry Springer show. Brian.
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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 6726 days) Posts: 376 Joined: 10-19-2003
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Message 32 of 56 (183812)
02-07-2005 8:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 30 by Brian
02-07-2005 7:54 PM
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Re: Inspired
I think some of the most interesting pictures of Christ in the Old Testament are the things that are not in plain text but do jump out at you. When the Israelites were in the wilderness, there was a specific order and way that they were to pitch their tents. The tribes were called out by name as to where in an arangement they were supposed to set up camp. If you draw out the arangement on paper and take into account the size of each tribe, you get a giant cross that's viewable from above. So as God looked down on the people's camp, he would see a giant cross displayed. Crusifiction would not be discovered for over 900 years but yet the picture of the coming Messiah and what he had to do was being displayed daily in the wilderness. The 40 years of wandering served to purify and test the people, preparing them for the task at hand to go in and possess the land. In like manner the first thing that Jesus had to do upon crossing his Jordan River - the baptism, was to be led into the wilderness for testing and preparation for his upcoming mission. Lots of word pictures like that all through the Old Testament that served to point the people in the direction of the coming Messiah.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 30 by Brian, posted 02-07-2005 7:54 PM | | Brian has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 33 by CK, posted 02-07-2005 8:19 PM | | Lizard Breath has not replied | | | Message 35 by Brian, posted 02-07-2005 8:21 PM | | Lizard Breath has not replied | | | Message 36 by Parasomnium, posted 02-08-2005 3:13 AM | | Lizard Breath has not replied | | | Message 39 by purpledawn, posted 02-08-2005 4:59 PM | | Lizard Breath has not replied |
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CK
Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: 07-04-2004
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Re: Inspired
I take it by Cross you mean a "latin" cross? Why not a T-shaped Tau?
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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 6726 days) Posts: 376 Joined: 10-19-2003
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Message 34 of 56 (183817)
02-07-2005 8:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 31 by Brian
02-07-2005 7:58 PM
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Re: Inspired
quote:
Don't you know that repeating the Christian idea of sin (which, in case you don't know, is not the same as the Old Testament concept of sin) is intensely boring? What makes you assume that no one else knows this myth?
First of all there is no Christian concept of Sin. The term Christian didn't even come about until some time after the Early Church started to spread out across the world. The doctrine of what sin is was expounded on by Jesus with the Sermon on the Mount. He took the same Ten Commandments used in the Old Testament and gave more bite to them by exposing the fact that the sin is in the heart first and then the act. Up to that point the emphasis was on the act such as with adultry. The idea of sin is not different as you transition from the Old to the New Testament. The Ten Commandments were like a flood light onto the actions of men and the Sermon on the Mount was like putting a magnifying glass up close to what was already illumiated.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by Brian, posted 02-07-2005 7:58 PM | | Brian has not replied |
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: 10-22-2002
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Re: Inspired
I think some of the most interesting pictures of Christ in the Old Testament are the things that are not in plain text but do jump out at you. Such as?
When the Israelites were in the wilderness, Oh, this invisible stay at Kadesh-Barnea for 38 years.
there was a specific order and way that they were to pitch their tents. The tribes were called out by name as to where in an arangement they were supposed to set up camp. If you draw out the arangement on paper and take into account the size of each tribe, you get a giant cross that's viewable from above. References please.
So as God looked down on the people's camp, he would see a giant cross displayed. LOL. Have you been over to AiG again?
Crusifiction would not be discovered for over 900 years but yet the picture of the coming Messiah and what he had to do was being displayed daily in the wilderness. So when do you date the Exodus to, and when do you date the first use of crucifixion to?
The 40 years of wandering served to purify and test the people, I suggest you read the Old testament again. Yhe wandering was to make sure that everyone that left Egypt died before the Israelites entered Palestine.
preparing them for the task at hand to go in and possess the land. Which, of course, we know is a complete fiction. The Conquest of Cannan is the easiest event in the Bible to prove is a load of bull.
In like manner the first thing that Jesus had to do upon crossing his Jordan River - the baptism, was to be led into the wilderness for testing and preparation for his upcoming mission. But we do not know anything about Jesus at all, the guy is historically invisible.
Lots of word pictures like that all through the Old Testament that served to point the people in the direction of the coming Messiah. The Messiah who has not been to earth yet. Jesus is invisible in the Old Testament, if you ever decide to post something with a bit of content in it, then maybe we can analyse it with a bit of purpose. Brian.
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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Re: Inspired
Lizard Breath writes: Crusifiction would not be discovered for over 900 years Well, I knew there was fantasy, and science-fiction, of course. But this is really fascinating! Imagine, people crusi-pitching nine centuries before the first crusi-fiction novel... Amazing!
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tsig
Member (Idle past 2939 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: 04-09-2004
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Re: Inspired
If you study the Old Testament though, you will find Jesus leaping out in page after page in each book as a picture of him is painted in indivual brush strokes. Maybe you should found an Order of the Leaping Jesus.
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Message 38 of 56 (183893)
02-08-2005 7:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 28 by riVeRraT
02-07-2005 6:44 PM
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Promises of Jesus
quote:
I agree, but if he promised us things, and you followed what he said, and the promises came true, wouldn't that validate what he said?
Yes, IF he made promises to US. I looked up "Promises of Jesus" and these three were listed. 1. He promised to prepare a place for you in Heaven. (John 14) 2. He promised to return for you.
Jesus is supposedly speaking to twelve at the last supper.
"Do not let your hearts be troubled...In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.... 3. He promised to give you a living gift -- namely, the Holy Spirit. John 14:15
Jesus still speaking to the twelve.
"If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with your forever--the Spirit of truth... These three promises are made to the disciples not everyone.
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 28 by riVeRraT, posted 02-07-2005 6:44 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 41 by riVeRraT, posted 02-09-2005 7:53 AM | | purpledawn has replied |
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Hebrew Camp
quote:
If you draw out the arangement on paper and take into account the size of each tribe, you get a giant cross that's viewable from above.
The author of the Exodus story presents The Camp of Israel more circular in shape like the zodiac wheel, than the square shape of the first photo. (Numbers 2:2)
"The sons of Israel shall camp, each by his own standard, with the banners of their fathers' households; they shall camp around the tent of meeting at a distance. The cross scenerio only works if you make assumptions in the text as this article in the link did. Here's an excerpt.
The tribes of Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun--collectively called the Camp of Judah--had to encamp east of the Levites. This poses a technical problem. Notice that if the breadth of their camp was larger than that of the Levites, the excess would be southeast or northeast, not east. Therefore, their camp could only be as wide as the Levites, and they then had to extend eastward to obtain whatever space they required. The camp of Judah was East (Numbers 2:3)
"Now those who camp on the east side toward the sunrise shall be of the standard of the camp of Judah,... The next group was to set up camp next to Judah. (Numbers 2:5)
"Those who camp next to him shall be the tribe of Issachar, and... And so on (Numbers 2:7)
"Then comes the tribe of Zebulun,... The last two were not required to be exactly East. Besides the cross layout shown at the bottom of the article, is not a good layout when it comes to protecting the camp. Odds are the armies were on the outside ring and the civilians were on the inside. Circle up the wagons! 
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Re: Inspired
Unfortunately your statements have nothing to do with what the authors actually wrote.
quote:
So the Bible speaks of one who will receive the entire paycheck for all of the wages of sin earned on Earth so that not one human has to receive the due wage.
Where???? You still haven't shown me a spiritual battle.
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Re: Promises of Jesus
Acts 2 The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost 1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them. There were 120 when the Holy Spirit came. It is still here today, and is for all. There are 9 gifts associated with the spirit.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by purpledawn, posted 02-08-2005 7:52 AM | | purpledawn has replied |
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Message 42 of 56 (184095)
02-09-2005 1:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 41 by riVeRraT
02-09-2005 7:53 AM
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Re: Promises of Jesus
John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. There are many facets to the Holy Spirit throughout the Bible. The promise to the disciples was a very specific facet: Counselor; but the promise was only to the disciples, not all people. Just because I promise to take my daughter to the movies, doesn't mean I can't invite others to join us. The promise was only to her though. Jesus made a specific promise to the disciples. That promise doesn't negate God from using the Holy Spirit as he sees fit in other ways. Jesus didn't make a universal promise.
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by riVeRraT, posted 02-09-2005 7:53 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 44 by riVeRraT, posted 02-09-2005 7:11 PM | | purpledawn has replied |
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Re: Inspired
No, actually you don't. If you do 'quote minng', using mistranslations, and taking sentances out of context, you can prove just about anything you want. I can quite say that the bible says there is no God if I wantd to.
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Re: Promises of Jesus
Jesus didn't make a universal promise.
Yes, he absolutly did. There are so many references to the Holy Spirit, and how the disciples brought the knowledge of it to others. Where are you getting this from, or are you just making it up? The Holy Spirit is for anyone who asks of it.
11Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!
That was a quote from Jesus. *edit* to fix a bracket problem This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 02-09-2005 19:12 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by purpledawn, posted 02-09-2005 1:03 PM | | purpledawn has replied |
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Message 45 of 56 (184261)
02-09-2005 9:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 44 by riVeRraT
02-09-2005 7:11 PM
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Re: Promises of Jesus
quote:
Where are you getting this from, or are you just making it up?
Just read the whole story that the author wrote. The three promises I listed weren't universal. They were only spoken to the disciples.
quote:
The Holy Spirit is for anyone who asks of it.
Your verse from Luke was also spoken in a discussion with the twelve, but does clearly imply that if asked, God would give the Holy Spirit. It does not say how it would manifest itself to each individual though, which is my point. The promise in John 14:26 is that the Counselor would teach them (the twelve) all things and will remind them (the twelve) of everything that Jesus had said to them. Now a person today prays to God and asks for the Holy Spirit. Does that person now know everything that Jesus had said to his disciples? Does the Holy Spirit teach them "all things?" Does every person who asks speak in tongues? Does every person who asks receive the power to heal? The promise Jesus made to the twelve was for the Spirit of Truth, a helper, counselor. He made a specific promise to the twelve. As I stated before, this doesn't mean that when asked God won't give individuals the Holy Spirit they need. But Jesus did not make the promises I listed to the multitudes. They were specific to the twelve.
A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 44 by riVeRraT, posted 02-09-2005 7:11 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 46 by riVeRraT, posted 02-10-2005 7:23 AM | | purpledawn has replied |
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