Genesis 1 and 2: The Difference Between Created and Formed

This same note came out of the same Bible on the word "created" in verse one. I have a feeling that you'll appreciate this opinion better. This is what he wrote about "created" refering to one Davies and one Oxford Genesius (O.G.) for support. I have a suspicion that you'll like that footnote better. Am I right?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Look Arach This is MY book! I want to make that very clear to you.I am a Gentile. I am not a Jew. But this Genesis is MY book.Now, if you would notice Genesis is not the origin of Judaism only. It tells the origin of the whole world and the whole human race. That includes a Gentile dog like me. There is no Abraham yet. There is no Moses yet, no Aaron yet, and no law or Levitical priesthood yet.Genesis is the book of the origin of the human race. Don't try to lock it up in like only the Jews are "daddy's favorite" sitting on daddy's lap to whom Genesis alone is addressed."God created MAN ..." it says. This is God's word to MAN. Got it?THIS IS MYYYYYYYY BOOK ! I don't care if you can write ancient Hebrew backwards in your sleep. Do we have an understanding?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

In one sense that it true. They are the chosen race entrusted with the oracles of God. And the Messiah and Savior of the world is a Jew - Jesus of Nazareth.On the other hand the reason there is a "called" race from Abraham is so that God can reach the "created" race of Adam. So the Jews are God's instrumental means to bless all the families of the earth:"And in you [Abraham] all the families of the earth will be blessed." (Gen. 12;4b)So the the Jews are a channel by which God can extend His blessing to the whole of mankind.When God couldn't get through with the created race their rebellion reached a culmination at the Tower of Babel. Around that time He started afresh with the "called" race from one man of faith - Abram. Through the Abrahamic race God turns around to bless all the other nations.

Before God gave the law to the Jews He created the human conscience within man.That was a God given law within man's very being. It predates Sinai and belongs to all humanity - the human conscience. I had to exaggerate to get the point across. Your smugness is repulsive. This whole "What the Bible REALLY REALLY REALLY means" forum is just an attraction for people like who like to get away from what the Bible really means.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I don't think I have it all right everywhere all the time. Neither do I think everyone else has nothing.But I am too proud. That I confess.Do you have an easier question for me this morning? Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

You are right about that.But don't think being "daddy's favorite" was easy. It carried with it certain responsibilites.Still, the whole Bible's my book. Furthermore, you can't know the intrinsic purpose of the Old Testament without the New. The Old Testament is the picture. The New Testament is the caption underneath the picture.

I think that with the word of God there is a part which is related to cultural and historical context and there is a part which trancends culture and is of eternal wisdom.It is okay to try to put on the cultural historical context eyeglasses and study the Bible. However, you should be aware that many times what someone purports to be the historical and cultural context is just talk laden with someone's own agenda. In that case your are not getting a lot of insight into history necessarily. You may be getting insight into the person's own contemporary biases with his or her particular axe to grind.Worst still is the person who militantly uses "historical and cultural context" to assault that part of the Bible which is of eternal wisdom. This is to discredit the speaking of God under the guise of exploring cultural and historical interests.In Ezekiel God warned the people who came to His word with an attitude absent of proper reverence or for the wrong reasons:"And as for you, son of man, the children of your people talk about you by the walls and in the entrances of the houses and speak to one another, each to his brother, saying, Come now, and hear what is the word that comes forth from Jehovah.

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And they come to you just as people come, and they sit before you as My people, and they hear your words but do not do them; for with their mouth they show much love, but their heart goes after their gain.

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And indeed you are to them like a very lovely song of one with a pleasant voice, who can play an instrument well; for they hear your words but do not do them.

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And when this comes about- indeed it comes - then they will know that a prophet has been among them." (Ezekiel 33:30-33)This could be as true of people today as it was in Ezekiel's time. We may just listen to the Bible like a pleasant story lots of interesting historical stuff in it. We even may focus our hearts on these things to dull our conscience to the conviction against sins in God's word.So historical context is interesting and even useful if the message isn't lost in it. I'd be cautious that its effect on my reading of God's word would not be like those sedated audiences sitting and noding pleasantly along with Ezekiel's speaking divine oracles of warning.Take Genesis for example. From it we can see why the world is so off on a downward decline. How could we be normal? We have been severed from God's original plan for our existence. Our forefather was excluded from the tree of life. That goes for Jews and Gentiles. If I gain great insight into culture and history of ancient Mesopotamia and Hebrew society but fail to grasp that, what has been accomplished? I say exactly nothing. In fact we've lost rather then had a gain. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The discussion is about the Difference Between Created and Formed in Genesis 1 and 2.And for some reason the old Off Topic Flag has been a little lenient lately. Hold on. I did not say "exclusive ownership". I affirmed that the book is written to folks like me. Perhaps strongly I affirmed this. But I did not claim it was only for me. My ideas are correct in this instance. I think your ideas on this matter are wrong. And I am not the only one who thinks so. And I am not just including evanglical Christians who agree with me against you, on this matter of ASAH verses BARA.I lean towards ASAH and BARA having different shades of meaning in Genesis and elsewhere in the Bible. I put forth my belief that God oversaw the exact usage of which word He wanted the prophet to use.

Formed verses created is not a so important that everything hinges on those two words.Even if I say the two words are the same you still hve noexcuse whatsoever not to recignize what Genesis says about man falling away from God.I don't know by what tortured "cultural" and "contextural" insight you fail to recognize that Adam blew it for the rest of us.That is unless you just prefer not to take the Bible seriously.

You chose the discussion heading, not me. Ask anyone. The most direct way to find out what the discussion is on is by reading the heading to the discussion. Perhaps. But it furnishes the logical support for understanding WHY asah and bara are used rather than only one word was used. And you already acknowledged that some rabbis shared that understanding, if not all. "External wisdom" is your brain child. And since You acknowledged that some rabbis saw things the way I saw them in Genesis, it isn't purely a personal matter. Is it?Oh. I couldn't fail to notice that you stole some thunder from old Ringo there. "Decoder Ring" was just too good to pass up, huh? I'm probably the one who has talked about it the most. If not the most, I did offer a number of contributions on the linquistic aspects of the issue - to which you vigorously offered counterpoints. My contribution to that was as follows: It could mean that for all intents and purposes to the seer of the vision, the lightbearers were made on the fourth day.I think, if I am not mistaken, you conceded that that could be a possible interpretation. If you did not agree that it is plausible if not preferable, I haven't yet read your answer to that regard. Thank you. I'm satisfied that you realize that. And therefore my interpretation (which is also that of some ancient rabbis) of a restored earth after divine judgment, is not all that far fetched after all. I don't recall that you responded to my comparison with the creation theme in 104th Psalm. That is the foundation of the earth being laid before the waters covering the mountains, and the limiting of the sea's influence, and the rising of the dry land. Did you comment on that corraborating evidence on a Destruction / Reconstruction view of Genesis 1:1,2? I think the autographs were innerant. Copyist errors did get transmitted into copies of the original, from scribes in spite of their miticulous care to preserve the original. They were human.To what extent God controls the entrance of copyist's errors, I don't know. But the process of inspiration of the Holy Scriptures is very mysterious to me. It is a mysterious thing to most of us who believe in the divine inspiration of the Bible separates it from the myriad of other kinds of liturature, including other sacred or religious writing.I don't think dictation was what occured most of the time. I think men were moved by God in a divine and human coordination. Human writers and the divine Spirit flowing in an unspeakable harmony caused the inspiration of the Holy Bible.The ancient Jews, the ones who were men of God, recognized the divinely inspired writings from the others. They established a Hebrew Canon. Not everything entered into it. And the canon itself refers to some books which were not in the canon, i.e. The Book of the Wars of the Lord.The same process took place with the canon of the New Testament. In both cases there was before the men of God a plethora of other liturature clamoring for attention as supposed inspired writing.So I think inspiration was under God's control and recognition of inspiration was also under God's control.God can preserve the style of the author and allow the writing to carry many cultural effects yet still speak His divine oracles for all mankind. He used Hebrew and He used Greek to speak to man in this written form. He also used a bit of Chaldee.I think the Bible is a miracle. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Alright, alright. Genesis is part of the five books of Moses. I never denied that. I wouldn't have it any other way.Now, the whole Bible is God's word to mankind as well."Turn to Me and be saved, All the ends of the earth, For I am God and there is no other" (Isaiah 45:22)Sorry, my Father said "all the ends of the earth".Which do you think is better - To be Jewish and not turn to be saved by God or to be Gentile from the ends of the earth and turn to be saved by God?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Giving of the torah is not under discussion either. Unless what you discuss is under discussion and what anyone else discusses is not if you don't want to discuss it.God stretched forth the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth, and formed the spirit of man within him according to Zechariah 12:1.How did God stretch forth the heavens if there was nothing in the heavens?

Arach,I went back and you basically interpret Psalm 104 as a description of God's acts after Noah's flood.The covering of the mountains and the limiting of the sea are all issues related to the flood of Noah, you say.I say maybe. But maybe not. It is a Psalm on creation. God established the earth in verse 5. I think if it was on the flood of Noah it might well mention the ark and the animals coming out of it.If it is a praise psalm on what God did after the flood why is there no mention of the salvation of Noah and the eight people in the ark? Isn't that the most significant thing about that event?

False charge. Any understanding of the Bible I claim with the help of the Holy Spirit can be confirmed by the plain words of the Bible.It is in the interpretation of the those plain words where YOU will argue that I have the wrong meaning. But I have not claimed any inside story into the Bible which I cannot establish with the plain words of the Bible. The Bible is a book for all mankind - period.For example. Paul's letter to Philemon may have been addressed to Philemon for his explicit reading. But it is an epistle for the whole world to benefit from.The Torah is also for the world in many ways, though it was expressly addressed to the Hebrew's. If it was not for the world then God wouldn't care that they were to teach it to the world. Or He wouldn't care that the nations would look upon Israel as a representative witness to the one true God.When the Jews were expelled from the good land the heathen moved in in their place. God arranged for them to know the law of the land. So the law that was to Israel was at that time directed to the non- Israelites who came in to Canaan to replace the disciplined Hebrews who were carried off.Beside this some critics of the Bible point out the the code of Hammarabi is similiar to the ten commandments and pre-dates them. But this could possibly mean only that God had communicated His moral law to Gentiles before He entrusted Israel with them. Jethro was a priest of Median and knew a lot about God. Balaam was a Gentile prophet for God.So the fact that Israel was a appointed national instrument of God does not mean that God did not speak such things to the Gentiles. His judgement of Canaan should represent that they knew better. There may have been some speaking of God somehow to them.What the Bible records of God's doings does not mean that those ONLY are God's doings. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

It is better to turn to God, in any regard ... ANY regard.