immigrants

Wow, it seems you have a lot of faith in the God of the Bible in spite of yourself.

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Faith, liberals don't hate America at all...

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"Hate" is how words and actions of liberals appear to conservatives, since many (not "all")liberals always seem to work against supporting America and have a view that America is doing wrong internationally.
Dean, Schumer, Kennedy, Reid, "Pela Lugosi", et al have said derogatory things about America. Then there are the Hollywood stars who say even worse things.

You mean like the constitutional right to privacy from wire tapping?
Perhaps the right to a fair trial in a reasonable time frame that we circumvent by keeping prisoners in Gitmo?I'd say you are on thin ice here.

Hate is when you see your country doing wrong and do not speak out against it. Love is when you see your country doing wrong and Do speak out against it.Today's conservatives never have been able to keep that straight.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Now we are going to get all the platitudes and slogans from the liberals against conservatives and I guess we can dish out a few from our side in return. The conversation was pretty interesting up to this point. Oh well.

Only because of the policies of our current 'leadership', if you can even call it that.You conservatives lo veto equate political dissent with your policies as being unpatriotic - nothing new there.Reminds me of an old quote from nazi Reichmarshall Hermann Goering at the Nuremburg trials."Of course the common people don't want war, but they can be brought to the bidding of their leaders. Just tell them they are under attack and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. It works the same in every country..."

If we had invested just a fraction of that over the past decades on the economic development of Mexico (instead of simply going there with business interests bent on exploitation) we would have a stronger neighboring economy that was a more valuable trading partner with a higher standard of living that wouldn't be producing the same flood of economic refugees.But I know. It sounds like more liberal, bleeding heart policy to the conservatives. They would rather spend their money on wars oversees and face our closest neighbors with exploitative and protectionist economic policies.

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...i'd rather improve the situation in mexico....

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One idea...
Our citizens and kids should all learn Spanish (face reality).
One good way to learn is immersion (Faith is familiar with that).
So, subsidize a program of travel of Spanish-learning kids/adults to some key Mexican cites to practice what they learn. Of course, this will boost the tourist trade and lure some American (capitalist) developers to improve the housing, restaurants, etc.
Then, of course, we make English our national language.

First of all we reached peak oil production here in the 70s (as was predicted).Faith, I agree that there are some whack job environmentalists that take things too far... but time has proven that a lot of what the environmentalists were saying was true.I used to think that environmentalists were a bunch of nut-jobs until global warming and bad droughts began to set in. Until the Arctic ice cap started melting. It isn't even up for debate anymore.... turns out a lot of the things they were warning about are true.Now the question is what do we do about it?The reason alternative energy has not been aggresively pursued is that oil is still relatively cheap. The problem is that by the time oil becames too expensive it may be too late to transisiton the world economy and we may have a collapse that makes the great depression look tame.Hey, I'm all for developing our natural resources, but that HAS to be balanced with responsibility towards the environment. Why do you want to poison the world you believe god created? I never understood why so many christians are so anti-environment

I NEVER said one thing about liberal/conservative until YOU brought it up. You reap what you sow.Faith, you really shouldn't comment on liberalism anyways, you clearly don't have the first clue about what liberals believe and what they think. Instead, because you don't have intelligent rebuttals for their positions you accuse them of hating their country.That's not exactly a mature way to handle different points of view.Now, you did better when discussing environmentalists. You do have a point that environmentalism does hold back some fo the development of our own natural resources. Arguments like that are much more mature and will allow other people to take you more seriously.

Have you read my Message 2?How is it government's job to do that? Work on private enterprise. But to lure investors it has to be a good business risk, for government or private investors. They aren't stupid. If what you suggest is a good idea investment-wise I'm sure conservatives of the "fiscal" sort would have been happy to do the investing already. Perhaps you could develop the PR needed to draw them there if what you are suggesting isn't just money down the drain.However, there are as many filthy rich liberals as conservatives. Work on them first. Soros for instance. Why aren't THEY down there developing Mexico's economy. Huh, huh, huh??????Christian conservatives already desire to help out Mexico, but most of us aren't rich investors.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-11-2006 09:52 PM

I'll assume you don't consider the bush administration conservative then.The last real conservative president was eisenhower; a very underrated president (despite some of his overly religious policies).sadly, eisenhower would be considered to the left of ted kennedy in today's politics

I spent twenty-five years in Berkeley, California. I know what liberals are and what they think. And for all those years I thought I was one of them. Speaking of maturity, descending to personal comments is pretty immature.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-11-2006 04:28 PM

Faith, I may actually agree with you a bit here in a way. Why should I spend one cent of my tax money to develop another countries economy? We have enough trouble taking care of our own citizens. The US shouldn't spend one cent on foreign aid until every tax-paying citizen has healthcare, housing and food to eat.This is going to sound harsh to some of you... but I'm not mexican and it's not my job to take care of their citizens. We do need to police the border to cut off the illegal immigration. If we have jobs for them let's let people in legally.... but ONLY if there are no americans to do those jobs.I'd better duck before someone accuses me of being Pat buchanan

I'm for environmental protections too. (Why do people always leap to the opposite false conclusion?) Rush Limbaugh makes me squirm when he celebrates cutting down trees and that sort of thing, although I agree with him that the "envirowackos" and "treehuggers" way overdo it and are essentially against human beings. They've overdone it, that's all.ABE: However, I haven't listened to Rush for four or five years so I may be out of touch with his latest slogans.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-11-2006 04:40 PM