|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,886 Year: 4,143/9,624 Month: 1,014/974 Week: 341/286 Day: 62/40 Hour: 3/4 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: former custodian of the Temple Mount admits Jewish Temple existed | |||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
JERUSALEM - Contradicting most of his colleagues, a former senior leader of the Waqf, the Islamic custodians of the Temple Mount, told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive interview he has come to believe the first and second Jewish Temples existed and stood at the current location of the Al Aqsa Mosque. The leader, who was dismissed from his Waqf position after he quietly made his beliefs known, said Al Aqsa custodians passed down stories for centuries from generation to generation indicating the mosque was built at the site of the former Jewish Temples. ... The former leader, who is well known to Al Aqsa scholars and Waqf officials, spoke on condition his name be withheld, claiming an on-the-record interview would endanger his life. While the Islamic leader's statements may seem elementary to many in the West, especially in light of overwhelming archaeological evidence documenting the history of the Jewish temples and description of services there in the Torah, his words break with mainstream thinking in much of the Muslim world, which believes the Jewish temples never existed. "I am mentioning historical facts," said the former leader. "I know that the traditional denial about the temple existing at the same place as Al Aqsa is more a political denial. Unfortunately our religious and political leaders chose the option of denial to fight the Jewish position and demands regarding Al Aqsa and taking back the Temple Mount compound. In my opinion we should admit the truth and abandon our traditional position." Page not found - WND I suppose this is progress of a sorts, but had no idea mainstream Islam denied the Jewish Temples were ever built, assuming the article is right in that assessment.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Where is it documented that Muslims doubt that the Jewish Temples existed ? From what's quoted it looks more like the issue is WHERE the Jewish Temples stood.a
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I wouldn't say a news article is necessarily documentation of a fact, but this is the statement:
his words break with mainstream thinking in much of the Muslim world, which believes the Jewish temples never existed Evidently or at least according to this, mainstream thinking in much of the Muslim world "believes the Jewish temples never existed." Also,
Muslims worldwide deny the Jewish temples ever existed There are some comments indicating that some think the Jewish temples may have existed but at different sites, but the above statements seem pretty clear to me that the writer claims mainstream Muslim opinion, at least in much of the Muslim world, denies they ever existed at all. Edited by randman, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
So basically in support of the claims in the article, you offer the claims in the article.
However if you read the quotes in the article - from the article's unnamed source - it seems that the location may be the real issue. And given what I know of Is lam that would seem far more plausible.
I know that the traditional denial about the temple existing at the same place as Al Aqsa is more a political denial.
(emphasis mine)emp Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Where is it documented that Muslims doubt that the Jewish Temples existed ? From what's quoted it looks more like the issue is WHERE the Jewish Temples stood. That seems to be about right.
Yassar Arafat writes: For 34 years [the Israelis] have dug tunnels [around the Temple Mount] . they found not a single stone proving that the Temple of Solomon was there, because historically the Temple was not in Palestine [at all]. (and at another time) Not only this, but [the Israelis] have also been trying to take over houses, shops, lanes and streets, either under the pretext of exploration or, as they recently did by closing the major gates of the mosque to conduct the so-called exploration operation of what they called the remains of the Solomon Temple when all the historical evidence, Your Majesty, proved that it was not there at all in another place far away from this spot. This is what historians had been saying (not a neutral source) At the end of the day, Solomon is a prophet of Islam, so I see no reason to deny a Temple existed. It's an issue of where it was, and the rights to access to holy land. Cynics would call rights to holy land as a political excuse, and I'd agree.
quote:
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
http://www.templemount.org/allah.html
quote: http://www.islamonline.net/.../AskAboutIslamEquote: quote: It certainly seems that Muslism acknowledge the past existence of the Jewish Temples.r Edited by AdminNWR, : shorten link
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4987 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
While the Islamic leader's statements may seem elementary to many in the West, especially in light of overwhelming archaeological evidence documenting the history of the Jewish temples.. It would be nice to know what some of this 'overwhelming archaeological evidence' is. As far as I am aware, and as far as ALL the mainstream archaeological journals I have read are concerned, no one has uncovered a single stone of Solomon's Temple. Some of the archaeological evidence would be appreciated. Brian.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
So some deny it ever existed (the article says that is the dominant opinion), and others say it was "far away" and not even "in Palestine" which seems just as bad.
What's the difference? Where do they think it was if not somewhere in Palestine?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
It's a coffee house forum. If you want to know, email them or look it up. The evidence they mention refers to various items, not stones, and there is a reason for that as the stones were carried away on purpose except perhaps the Wailing Wall.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Apparently, the PLO thinks the Temple was not in Jerusalem or Palestine, and others think it never existed.
What evidence do you have that the Muslims in the Middle East believe Solomon had a Temple in Jerusalem.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote:Which "others" say it "never existed" ? Where's the evidence ? quote: Why would it matter where Muslims live ? I've produced evidence that there is a Muslim tradition - a very strong one - that there was a Temple on the Temple Mount, before Muhammed. And a maanstream Muslim website also says that the Temple was bult there. But we have seen zero evidence for your claim that mainstream Muslim thinking - in any part of the World - holds that Solomon's Temple never existed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Mainstream Islam says Solomon was an Islamic prophet. You have to do better than that.
You have provided no real evidence to contradict the article. Why?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: How is this relevant ?
quote:Firstly my point is not to contradict the article - only to question assertion that Muslims deny that the Jewish Temples ever existed - an assertion that is not supported in the article. I've provided evidence that there are Muslims who say that Solomon's Temple was on the Temple Mount - and even that it is part of an important tradition. So the evidence I've found is against the article on that point and nobody has found any evidence for it. So your question is in error. What should be questioned is why - if the article is correct - we should find so many statements from Muslims asserting that the Temples did exist - and none that they did not.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I don't really understand what there is to even dispute in the original article. Like so many today the part that was quoted is totally ambiguous anyway. as is so often the case with reporting like that seen at Worldnetdaily, the story is a mixture of reporting and totally unsupported assertion.
Consider this quote from the article:
While the Islamic leader's statements may seem elementary to many in the West, especially in light of overwhelming archaeological evidence documenting the history of the Jewish temples and description of services there in the Torah, his words break with mainstream thinking in much of the Muslim world, which believes the Jewish temples never existed. Here is a combination of two totally unsuported statements designed simply as propaganda. TTBOMK there is NO archaeological evidence documenting the history of the Jewish temples and even if there was, that is not what the story is about. The story is about one very particular temple (two if you include the rebuilt temple), not Jewish Temples in general. The second propaganda statement is "mainstream thinking in much of the Muslim world, which believes the Jewish temples never existed." That just comes out of the blue and is not supported by any of the facts in the article. This article is just another example of the breakdown between reporting and editorializing. It is editorial comment masquerading as reporting. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
only to question assertion that Muslims deny that the Jewish Temples ever existed - an assertion that is not supported in the article. Here is what the article says, contrary to your claims.
Muslims worldwide deny the Jewish temples ever existed his words break with mainstream thinking in much of the Muslim world, which believes the Jewish temples never existed Your quote in the article is from one individual:
I know that the traditional denial about the temple existing at the same place as Al Aqsa is more a political denial. There are quotes on this thread from Palestinians denying Solomon's Temple was in Palestine at all, if it even existed. Apparently, there are many that deny the Temple ever existed. Others claims it may have existed but in Palestine, and some that deny that it was in the same place but could have been in Palestine. Regardless, we have a major authority in Islam in the sense of an insider that says the insiders that keep the Mosque are taught the truth and yet continually promote a deliberate lie, asserting the Jewish Temple was never there, and moreover, that the Muslim world at least over in the Middle East believes these lies. You find that significant or just want to quibble over which lie is the more predominant, that the Temple never existed, or that it never existed in Palestine, or that it existed but in Jerusalem or on the same spot?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024