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Author | Topic: Fahrenheit 9/11 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
Anyone going out to see F-9/11?
Looks awesome, pretty cool, ties into the topic I started a while back on The War in Iraq, I have high expectations for this movie, my friend keeps telling me about Moore's other movie, Bowling for Columbine, and his Tv Show, that was cancelled. The earth is flat.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
Eh. I'll probably see it, but I'm not really into Michael Moore. He has a tendency to put interesting questions up as unassailable facts. In that format, they're really, really easy to shoot down. If he left them as interesting questions, or... I dunno, got himself a freakin' fact checker, he'd be a Hell of a lot more effective.
Now Al Franken, that man's just a treat and a half. "Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief. And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears" -Beck
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MrHambre Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
I'm looking forward to seeing Moore's new movie. It's probably much more serious than his others, considering the subject matter. Personally, I like him better when he's getting important people to make fools of themselves on camera than when he's telling me things I already know.
I highly recommend Bowling For Columbine, but my personal favorite movie is his debut, Roger & Me. regards,Esteban Hambre
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Documentaries are cool when they are about people like Jane Goodall, but I personally prefer print media as a source of information. It's nice to be able to refer back to it, and it is much easier to check out facts, especially if they are footnoted.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
One problem is that Michael Moore is absolutely dishonest in the way he cuts and edits his films.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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iftikhar Inactive Member |
hello there
u may be right jar! but i guess he has never shown this dishonesty in his books.. i mean columns etc. so gotta check it out Peace iftikhar |
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MrHambre Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
jar claims:
quote:Absolutely dishonest, eh? Meaning he's not simply stretching the truth or only showing the scenes that demonstrate his take on things, but that his films in their final form mean the exact opposite of what the footage itself originally signified? That sounds plausible. Since you didn't deign to provide an example of what you mean, I'll help you out. I understand the objection as it relates to the sequence in Roger & Me when he goes through the recent history of General Motors. Moore makes it seem as if GM suddenly switched over to defense contracting and immediately started closing US plants to pay for the huge executive bonuses that Roger Smith was receiving. Okay, the true timeline was certainly a lot longer than Moore let on. However, his accusation still hinged on the fact that a company racking up record profits and paying its chief executive hefty bonuses was also closing plants and laying off employees as if it were in financial ruin. Similarly, at the end of Roger & Me we see a Flint family being evicted on Christmas Eve, while we hear the sentimental holiday address Roger Smith delivered to General Motors shareholders at their Christmas party. Okay, is Moore being 'absolutely dishonest' because he's trying to make it seem like the two events are taking place simultaneously? When Smith is finished his speech, we see Moore approach him for the dramatic showdown, so we realize that the two sequences must have been shot at different times. Are you saying that Moore expects us to believe he's in Flint and Detroit at the exact same time? regards,Esteban Hambre
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Actually, I was thinking of his more recent effort, Bowling for Columbine.
It is worth reviewing the analysis at Hardylaw.net which was prepared by David Hardy.
The Truth about Bowling for Columbine Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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paisano Member (Idle past 6451 days) Posts: 459 From: USA Joined: |
In Roger and Me, Moore harped about the closing of the old Buick plant in Flint. The fact that GM was building a new, state of the art plant just south of Flint, was never mentioned. Nor were the competitive pressures that forced the old plant to close.
As far as his latest effort, it has truly earned Moore his place in history. Right alongside Tokyo Rose and Axis Sally.
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MrHambre Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
Paisano,
I assume you've seen Fahrenheit 9-11, then. I know you'd never criticize a movie without giving it a fair viewing. How was it? added by edit: So Cuernavaca, Mexico is "just south of Flint"? regards,Esteban Hambre This message has been edited by MrHambre, 06-25-2004 04:30 PM
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MisterOpus1 Inactive Member |
quote: Not that I'm a big Moore fan or anything, but he did attempt to answer some of his critics for his Columbine movie: Michael Moore | Substack This message has been edited by MisterOpus1, 06-25-2004 04:32 PM
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pink sasquatch Member (Idle past 6051 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: |
I agree that Moore's techniques can be problematic at times - one definitely has to be media savvy to pick out the truth from the half-truth.
However, sometimes moments of his footage do stand on its own - and they are usually pieces of footage you don't see elsewhere. I haven't seen '9/11 yet', but I have seen the trailer - it includes a moment on a golf course where 'W' is answering a reporter's deadly serious question, which he ends with a smile and says, "Now watch me make this drive." Everytime I see it, it definitely makes me say to myself, "who the hell is this guy that is running our country?"
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paisano Member (Idle past 6451 days) Posts: 459 From: USA Joined: |
So Cuernavaca, Mexico is "just south of Flint"? I was talking about the plant that's visible from I-75, wiseguy.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Right alongside Tokyo Rose and Axis Sally. Is there some kind of pernicious conservative neurosis where you guys can't tell the difference between irreverent opposition to the policies of a leader and outright hatred of a nation? I mean, when did Bush suddenly become the American avatar? Quite frankly, it's pretty obvious to me that Moore loves America a lot more than you or I - when he sees bad shit happening to America, he goes out and does something about it. What was the last thing you did to fight the war on terror, mi paisano? You know what I find anti-American? Suggesting that the only way to "love America" is to march lockstep with an ideology that's accomplishing nothing. I don't know if Moore is a good guy, but he's something pretty rare - a liberal older than 25 who's still got some fuckin' piss and vinegar. In a time when their liberalism seems to be something that folks discard along with blacklight posters and beer can pyramids when they move out of college, that's good to see.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Actually, I do not agree with just about anything that GWB has done.
But that has nothing to do with Michael Moore. My problem with him is the same that I have with many literal fundamentalists. He begins with a conculsion and then distorts the evidence as needed to support his assertions. It is not the end, it is the means. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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