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Author Topic:   Black Gold
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 1 of 24 (128453)
07-28-2004 6:53 PM


A discussion for the geologists and roughnecks out there:
I have been reading about the Guadalupe Mountains and El Capitan in Texas as I may visit there in a couple of weeks. El Capitan is a thousand foot limestone cliff, which geologists believe is from the Permian Era (about 250 Mya).
There is also a large permian oil resevoir near the area. I have read from several sites that this oil resevoir is formed from buried plant and animal material that was heated and compressed. I have also heard several members of this site say something to the effect that this is how oil is formed. I have a few problems with this explanation.
What would cause such a vast amount of plants and animals to be buried rapidly enough to produce the carbon for this oil?
I have heard the creationist argument that since oil resevoirs exist in permiable rock at such high pressures, they must be young or else the pressures would have dissipated over the millions of years. What is the uniformitarian explanation?
Finally, I read an article not too long ago from World Net Daily about the alternative theory of oil formation. It started off by giving an example of an oil well on top of the Mississippi river delta in the gulf. This well pumped out 15,000 barrels a day when it was first tapped in the 70's. Production slowly declined over the years to less than 5000 barrels a day. The company was about to abandon the well as it was becoming no longer profitable when the well refilled itself and began pumping out 15,000 barrels a day again. The article said that this phenomenon has been observed in many wells world-wide.
My Dad, who is a geologist, recalled that when he took his courses in geology (over 30 years ago), the professor remarked that due to the heat and pressure necessary for oil to form, the formation of oil is largely a mystery. This article also pointed out that the heat and pressure necessary to produce oil is only found near the earth's mantle. This has led to the theory that methane in the earth's crust is heated and condensed into crude oil near the mantle and then finds its way into the upper crustal rock. This is supported by the fact that an isotope of Helium, a radioactive decay product, is almost always found with oil. In fact, this Helium is used to sniff out oil wells.
The article went on to say that for the last 25 years this theory has been circulated and accepted by most oil companies as the means by which oil is formed. So oil may be a renewable resource after all, and it may not take hundreds of millions of years to form as is stated by everything I've ever read about it.
If this is the case, why is there so much misinformation out there about how oil forms? If this is not the case, then what are the typical explanations for these things?

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Loudmouth, posted 07-28-2004 7:20 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied
 Message 14 by edge, posted 07-28-2004 10:32 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied
 Message 19 by Bill Birkeland, posted 07-29-2004 1:43 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 5 of 24 (128460)
07-28-2004 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by CK
07-28-2004 7:06 PM


Hold on a minute! Is it the done thing for the admin version of a poster to approve their own topics?
I know... I just thought about that after I moved my own topic... I spose that's not how it works!
My bad... I won't do it again. I'm still new to this moderating business...
Indeed you discuss a number of articles and yet provide no links - surely a suggestion that an admin would make before "releasing" this topic.
Actually, I only refer to one news article from WND, which I read a couple of months ago or more, so I'm not even sure if it's still available on the net, but I do recall the article quite well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by CK, posted 07-28-2004 7:06 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by CK, posted 07-28-2004 7:17 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied
 Message 7 by CK, posted 07-28-2004 7:18 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 10 of 24 (128470)
07-28-2004 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by CK
07-28-2004 7:18 PM


I found the WND article. It can be viewed here:
Page not found - WND

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 Message 7 by CK, posted 07-28-2004 7:18 PM CK has not replied

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 Message 13 by NosyNed, posted 07-28-2004 8:50 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 16 of 24 (128503)
07-28-2004 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Coragyps
07-28-2004 10:59 PM


Thank you for your reply.
I figured the Creo/permiablity argument would be quite easily explained.
I guess the meat of the controversy with me is: Is biogenic material required for oil to form, or can it form by chemical processes alone with materials present in the crust.
His ideas may have some merit - the deep gas in western Oklahoma was found by people who listened to him. But so very much petroleum has "biomarker" molecules in it that can be directly related to living things, even specific kinds of algae, or the cuticle on a kind of leaf, that I'm pretty well convinced that most oil is biogenic. A lot of natural gas may well not be, but that's not to say it's "primordial." There might be oxidation/reduction reactions in hot rock that could produce methane.
If oil is formed deeper in the crust and then works its way up into pockets, could it not collect biogenic material including bacteria, plant remains, etc. as it rises, or does the chemical nature of it mean it must have been formed FROM biogenic material?
Dr. Gold believed that the oil is a "renewable, primordial soup continually manufactured by the Earth under ultrahot conditions and tremendous pressures. As this substance migrates toward the surface, it is attached by bacteria, making it appear to have an organic origin dating back to the dinosaurs."
Hmmm. Where? I might want to invest.....
From the article...
Analysis of seismic recordings revealed the presence of a "deep fault" at the base of the Eugene Island reservoir which was gushing up a river of oil from some deeper and previously unknown source.
Similar results were seen at other Gulf of Mexico oil wells. Similar results were found in the Cook Inlet oil fields in Alaska. Similar results were found in oil fields in Uzbekistan. Similarly in the Middle East, where oil exploration and extraction have been underway for at least the last 20 years, known reserves have doubled.
I realize this is more of a sensationalized news story than a scientific study, but it perked my curiosity. For all who did not read the article here is a brief summary of the points in the theory:
The theory is simple: Crude oil forms as a natural inorganic process which occurs between the mantle and the crust, somewhere between 5 and 20 miles deep. The proposed mechanism is as follows:
Methane (CH4) is a common molecule found in quantity throughout our solar system — huge concentrations exist at great depth in the Earth.
At the mantle-crust interface, roughly 20,000 feet beneath the surface, rapidly rising streams of compressed methane-based gasses hit pockets of high temperature causing the condensation of heavier hydrocarbons. The product of this condensation is commonly known as crude oil.
Some compressed methane-based gasses migrate into pockets and reservoirs we extract as "natural gas."
In the geologically "cooler," more tectonically stable regions around the globe, the crude oil pools into reservoirs.
In the "hotter," more volcanic and tectonically active areas, the oil and natural gas continue to condense and eventually to oxidize, producing carbon dioxide and steam, which exits from active volcanoes.
Periodically, depending on variations of geology and Earth movement, oil seeps to the surface in quantity, creating the vast oil-sand deposits of Canada and Venezuela, or the continual seeps found beneath the Gulf of Mexico and Uzbekistan.
Periodically, depending on variations of geology, the vast, deep pools of oil break free and replenish existing known reserves of oil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Coragyps, posted 07-28-2004 10:59 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 24 of 24 (128866)
07-30-2004 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Bill Birkeland
07-29-2004 1:43 PM


Heh.. Can't argue with that... unless I read the small library of material you have referenced, but by then another geologic era may have passed...
Thank you for the in depth reply.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Bill Birkeland, posted 07-29-2004 1:43 PM Bill Birkeland has not replied

  
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