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Author Topic:   Biblical questions
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 8 (129125)
07-31-2004 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Prince Lucianus
07-28-2004 5:21 PM


I have always read these passages as two seperate tales. Matthew, Mark and John are speaking of one event, trying to serve one purpose, while the passage in Luke is entirely different and illustrating a whole different subject.
The passages in Matthew, Mark and John are meant as indicators of what was to follow, a warning of the upcoming crucifixion. That Matthew and Mark are very close is not surprising, it has long been believed that Matthew, Mark and Luke were derived from earlier oral traditions. But there are notable differences as well.
There are also the Gospels Q and M, known only by extrapolation from the content of the others.
Remember, all of these were written long after the incidents happened, certainly a quarter century later, maybe as much as a century and a quarter later. The styles of Matthew, Luke and Mark are based around short parables and one-liners, closely follow the Judaic tradition and all deal primarily with Jesus evangelical period.
John is quite different and most likely came from an entirely different tradition. Even the style of John is different and it comes across far more as a lecture or essay than the narative style of the others.
The tale from Luke, as I said above, is entirely different. It is not part of the story leading to the crucifixion, but rather a parable related to charity and forgivness.
Here is the passage from Luke 7:
quote:
36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.
37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
As you can see, this is a totally different subject and meant to teach a lesson instead of being a precursor of what is to follow.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-28-2004 5:21 PM Prince Lucianus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-31-2004 1:11 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 8 (129128)
07-31-2004 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Prince Lucianus
07-31-2004 1:11 PM


You need to remember that Q and M are inferred, we don't have any hard documentation that either reallly existed. They could be pointing to the older oral tradition instead of specific documents.
Also, there is nothing firm about the order in which the Gospels were written. It, like source, is simply based on comparing the different content and styles. The accepted idea is that Mark is the older while Matthew and Luke were written independantly, and without knowledge of each other, but both having access to Mark.
There are many other Gospels out there. There is James, Thomas, Mary, the infancy gospels of James and Thomas as well as scraps of others. Of the four currently accepted Gospels, John is the most contentious. For a long time it was considered heretical and is still the source for much angst among many Christians.
Sorry that I got to it before the literalists. I'll stay out of future questions if you'd like.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-31-2004 1:11 PM Prince Lucianus has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 8 (131676)
08-08-2004 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Adminnemooseus
08-08-2004 4:20 PM


Re: Topic needs better (more precise) title
How about "Structured four step response to Biblical questions"?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Adminnemooseus, posted 08-08-2004 4:20 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
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