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Author Topic:   The Flip and the Flop
MrPhy42
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 8 (148540)
10-08-2004 8:31 PM


Is anyone else bothered by Gw Bush's mentality that once he has latched onto an idea, he will not waver, even if it is wrong? He will never say that he was wrong about anything. If he said the sky was purple with orange polkadots, you would never sway him to say otherwise. He claimed that tere were stockpiles of WMD all over Iraq. I believe Rumsfeld even said we knew where they were. He called the UN ineffective in their inspections because they were not finding these weapons. He said the sanctions were doing nothing. He made his biggest argument for going to war on these exact points, thousands of people have died over these very points, and none of them turned out to be true. Still as of yet, we have heard nothing from him by way of saying that he has made any lapses in judgement.
We have only heard the man say that other people were wrong. While this may be true, and he had apparently based his judgment on all of these other people's bad information, that does not change the fact that he circumvented UN actions that were in fact working. He did not allow UN inspections to continue because they were finding nothing. The fact is, there seems to have been nothing to find. This was now confirmed by two seperate reports by people he appointed himself. He rushed to war over points that were false through and through. A real leader does not point fingers for his mistakes, he takes responsibility for his own actions. The intelligence community did not make his decision to turn on the UN. They did not make him turn his back on allies over personal convictions. They did not make his choices for him. They gave information, and he decided what to do with that information himself. Bush decided to go to war, and attempt to discredit the UN over actions that were in place and working effectivly.
So now what do we hear? The same rhetoric that he used when he was making choices based on bad information. Sadam posed a threat. The problem is that the threat we were told in no uncertain terms that Sadam posed were false. Now, the rhetoric remains the same. If the information has changed, how is it possible for the threat not to have changed?
The worst part is, he seems to not only tout this as his best quality, but condemn others who will not do the same. Unwavering stuborness in the face of reality does not seem like a quality that I find apealing in the president of the United States. He has continuously had to change his story for justification of this war rather than admit what really happened.What is so apealing about a man who will not admit he is wrong no matter what? He has continuously had to change his story for justification of this war rather than admit what really happened.Is that integrity? Is that honesty? Or is it just bull headed stupidity and living in a fantasy world? There is a time to stand by your actions, and there is a time to admit a missjudgment. It takes a bigger man to admit his mistakes than to change his story to cover his own rear end.
This message has been edited by MrPhy42, 10-09-2004 09:27 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 10-09-2004 7:00 AM MrPhy42 has not replied
 Message 3 by MrPhy42, posted 10-09-2004 4:02 PM MrPhy42 has not replied
 Message 7 by Loudmouth, posted 10-25-2004 4:32 PM MrPhy42 has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 8 (148628)
10-09-2004 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrPhy42
10-08-2004 8:31 PM


Some examples
I think to get this flying you should offer some examples of where Bush has done this so others can discuss them.
In addtion, to show the contrast you might want to point to something that Kerry has admited out right error on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MrPhy42, posted 10-08-2004 8:31 PM MrPhy42 has not replied

  
MrPhy42
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 8 (148688)
10-09-2004 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrPhy42
10-08-2004 8:31 PM


Well I don't necessqarily say that Kerry has done any such thing either, which is why he is not mentioned in this. I am trying to get a sense of why people see this quality as somehow possitive.
I hear talk of integrity, and doing what is right, yet somehow I do not see how this quality can possibly qualify as either. So this was written to ask that question. To all those who see this as some sort of strong possitive point (as it seems to be the current base of this administration) how can this be the right thing for a leader to do?

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 Message 1 by MrPhy42, posted 10-08-2004 8:31 PM MrPhy42 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by AdminNosy, posted 10-09-2004 5:50 PM MrPhy42 has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 4 of 8 (148699)
10-09-2004 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by MrPhy42
10-09-2004 4:02 PM


You missed half my comment
You left out any example of what makes you think Bush has done this. If you don't set that up at the beginning you will find the first answers will simply be "He did not."
Don't reply with the changes. Reply to this note after you edit the OP (opening post). We'll let the Kerry part go, I guess, but you know that others will bring that up.
I will try to avoid having this thread going down that path of attacking Kerry as an attempt to defend Bush. Those who wish to point out Kerry's faults may open a separate thread for that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by MrPhy42, posted 10-09-2004 4:02 PM MrPhy42 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by MrPhy42, posted 10-09-2004 10:28 PM AdminNosy has not replied

  
MrPhy42
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 8 (148736)
10-09-2004 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminNosy
10-09-2004 5:50 PM


Re: You missed half my comment
The post has been edited to include examples of unwavering stuborness. Thank you for the guidence on what you required to make this thread active.

This message is a reply to:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3976
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 6 of 8 (152457)
10-23-2004 10:29 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
This topic seems to have gotten lost for a while. Found it, but then got very busy in the real world.
Now open to debate.
Adminnemooseus
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 10-23-2004 09:32 PM

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 8 (152830)
10-25-2004 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by MrPhy42
10-08-2004 8:31 PM


quote:
So now what do we hear? The same rhetoric that he used when he was making choices based on bad information. Sadam posed a threat. The problem is that the threat we were told in no uncertain terms that Sadam posed were false. Now, the rhetoric remains the same. If the information has changed, how is it possible for the threat not to have changed?
Actually, in my opinion, the rhetoric has changed, and has continued to change. Before the war we were going to "disarm Iraq". After there was nothing to disarm we were there to "shut down weapon programs". After we found out that there were no weapon programs, we were there because Iraq was trying to "get rid of sanctions to they could start weapons programs". Next, we will be going back in time through a time portal to prevent future dictators from being born.
On top of that, we were told there was a 9/11-Iraq link, now we are told there was none nor any evidence linking them. What is next?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MrPhy42, posted 10-08-2004 8:31 PM MrPhy42 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by docpotato, posted 10-25-2004 6:53 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 8 of 8 (152862)
10-25-2004 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Loudmouth
10-25-2004 4:32 PM


quote:
Next, we will be going back in time through a time portal to prevent future dictators from being born.
So that's why Arnold and the GOP have such a cosy relationship.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Loudmouth, posted 10-25-2004 4:32 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
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