Christian Denominations - Heaven and Hell

Salvation is what it's about. Acknowledging the fact that you've done wrong things in life - and because God is holy, we are only accepted with atonement for sin. That's the basis for the Messiah in the OT.Christ is the LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS as forcasted.We are the righteousness of God - in Christ, made white by Christ and because of his suffering for our sin.Your belief is something else Jar. You promote that nobody even has to believe nor regard Christ. But the NT says the wrath of God abideth on him that believeth not in the only begotten Son of God.He that liveth and believes in Christ, shall never die. He that is dead and believed, though he be dead - yet shall he live.The picture you promote is a posibility we'd all like to believe. For example, I'd sure like all my atheist family to go to heaven. But the reality of the situation is that it is to God's discresion - as to whether someone who doesn't believe, is saved. Certainly the scripture does indeed suggest this is the way it is, therefore no man can boast that he goes to heaven, as we all stand before the judgement seat of Christ. I said this to B2P in his topic, "Justify damnation dammit", and explained that the NT says that we are grafted in through unbelievers - and therefore have no boast anyway, as deeds don't get us into heaven, but God does.So all the sects and conditions of creeds and nominations, is man's device. Man attempting to religiousize what Christ is about. It's all man-doctrine that means nothing.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 12-29-2004 15:50 AM

You know that everything I said is in the bible. To provide the quotes leaves you none the wiser then.And what's with this smoke warning?

But Jesus is our salvation. Jesus is our righteousness. WHo are you to say this? You've just said that belief in Christ isn't necessary - Now since you don't believe in the biblical prophecies - and disregard the bible - isn't this all your own atheistic philosophy? You've just said that atheism is fine by Christ - even though the wrath of God abideth on him that has not believed. You then say it's fine to be atheist - and deny God's existence and name. Despite God showing how his name and word are kept throughout the whole bible.So does this mean you are an atheist? Because you're saying that people might aswell be. But how can they not acknowledge their sin and be righteouss?Jesus said that people were healed, or that he forgave them, instead of saying "be healed".

What is more childish?I asked you to stop with this smoke nonsense, and you immediately say the same thing in this thread. How mature is that? Is this not acting an ass-hat?Ps. It's annoying digging for quotes when you're not a chapter and verse person, especially when you know that the reader knows darn well what passage you're talking about. So I am in the process of a tedious bible dig.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 12-29-2004 20:25 AM

No Jar - they are facts. It is what is written in the bible. You already know this.John 21;30-31,And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book; But these are written, that ye might BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God; And that believing ye might have life through his nameJohn 14;6, Jesus sayeth unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the father, but by me.John 6; 47, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth in me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life....53. Then Jesus said unto them....except ye eat the flesh of the son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you,

It's not a quote mine. It's the theme of the whole New Testament. I only wrote it because it was the only relevant part. The meaning is there to be read, along with the agreeing quotes.Jesus is the way the truth and life - and their testimony is that we might also believe because to believe, and accept the bread of heaven gives life eternal.

I have to go now. It is an admirable trait to say that being a sheep (seperation of sheep and goats) alone will get you heaven, and I also hope it is possible for atheists to be saved, and that they are saved because of their sheepiness . But Jar - I just don't read it in there that much as compared to belief being the key. Certainly, everyone I know is atheist - so I would love to find the place where it says atheism will also give eternal life. But for me - unbelieving is a wrong path, a wide one. The path to life is narrow - and we can see from my quotes, as to what/who gives life.

I believe by hearing the Gospel. I always have. Consciously, I can't remember fear of death having anything to do with it.R u suggesting I should become atheist here?

That's true. I don't want you to miss out on eternal life.Does this mean I fear death? Well, I fear hell more than the mind ending. I'll admitt that. It might seem that way if you are reading mike at evc. It might also seem that the brain is the mind - while investigating the brain only.

. Maybe I need to give my debating skills an improvement. I seem to be asked questions and expected to answer. I'm always the one being interviewed. Lol.But Shraff hasn't got an ego problem IMHO. Her baba is sweet.

Excellent point.Christ said that the sinner who repents goes away justified rather than the righteouss man who says "thanks for making it so I am not like that sinner, God".Is it just me, or are all mike's excellent geniuses?

R u assuming that good workers are not believers?This seems to be a preconception you have.All these things you've suggested are good anyway, and I agree about those good things.

Hi Shraff. But Shraff, it isn't a key part of my belief. If I fear hell more than death, then wouldn't I want to believe in death rather than an afterlife?I know you think fear of death is why I believe. But I'm young and male - I don't particularly think too much about death, what with thinking I'm invincible etc. Listen, I believe because I know that Christ is the truth.If I fear hell, then it's because I think it exists, not because anyone has pushed me into belief. I was never asked to believe or told I'd go to hell. Well, I just imagine Ellie when I think of you - you're exactly the same. ....I admitt that eternal life I want. But I think I am more than an animal, and I believe that God is true. But if you think it's all because of fear that I believe, then can I convince you anyway? How can I change an idea you insist upon having?