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Author Topic:   Christian Denominations - Heaven and Hell
Shaz
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 91 (172226)
12-30-2004 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by commike37
12-28-2004 1:23 AM


My 2 cents worth.
I hope no-one minds me butting in here. After reading the posts here, I thought I would offer my own interpretation. I am no scholar, so please feel free, to point me to errors within my post, or the way I post. At the outset I must also apologise for the length of this post.
In relation to the discussion of John 14:
John 14:6
Jesus answered, I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.
‘Coming to the father’, IMHO, is not necessarily indicative of going to heaven. Taking into account the context of the chapter, Jesus talks about being able to do what he has been doing, and precedes this with reference to miracles.
John 14:12-14
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me, will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these because I am going to the father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the father. You may ask me for anything in my name and I will do it.
Subsequently, when Jesus states ‘coming to the father’, I believe he is talking about the ability to communicate with the father, and to bring prayers directly to the father. There are many references within the bible, of ‘coming unto’ the father in prayer through Christ, the lord. As there are many references, which state, the way to salvation is not only through works. (not cited due to length of post)
John 14:15
If you love me, you will obey what I command.
Jesus quite clearly states, for the believer to keep the commandments, to fulfil the ‘intent’ of the teachings. Love however, is not indicative of salvation, just as love is not indicative of a marriage without strife, a parent/teen relationship without stress (I am generalising, for the purpose of example, this is in no means indicative of all relationships, regardless of belief).
IMHO, Jesus intent was for the followers, to live in goodness, and with purposeful loving intent. Given the enormity of that ask, Jesus recognised that one would need help with the enormity of living a righteous life, and he introduced, ‘the counsellor’, and coming to the father in prayer.
John14:16-17
And I will ask the father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you forever — the spirit of Truth..."
The counselor aka holy spirit, I believe to be the key stone to truth, in accordance with Christ's words.
The topic: Or, in simpler words, what are the bare minimum requirements as to what you can and can not believe to go to heaven in Christianity?"
Denominations; Personally I have nothing of relevance to offer there, as I tend to hold a non denominational perspective of Christianity. Neither do I take your question, to be relevant to only one particular belief system.
Therefore for the purpose of your question, I have applied it only to my individual interpretation of, charismatic Christianity.
Matthew24:12
Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Given that scripture, I believe love to be the pillar stone of salvation, and I believe {wo} man, to be incapable of achieving full agape love alone (see above John14:15-17).
1Corinthians13:4-7
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
In these words, we are clearly told what our love should be like. It is more than a simple declaration of love, but also of actions, or ‘works’ as some would say.
Matthew25:34-36
..., come you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you ... For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, ...
As shown by this passage, action is expected from believers. Just as we do not live by bread alone, we also are not expected to walk by word alone. As John told the people, produce fruit, in keeping with repentance Luke 3:8-10
John is giving directives for how a believer should live, in accordance with the word of God. Jesus also paid homage to John’s teachings as purposeful to the believers.
Matthew21:32
For John, came to show to you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Jesus followed up, by saying that those who deny their fellow man are just as guilty of denying him.
Therefore for the purpose of this discussion, I propose the minimum requirements to go to heaven may be found in the Beatitudes. (Italics mine)
  • Blessed are the poor in spirit, because theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew5:3 To recognise weakness in oneself, and that being righteous, as one stands on ones own is impossible.
  • Blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted. Matthew5:4— Mourning when one recognises the sin within oneself, and seeks repentance.
  • Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Matthew5:5 - To be humbled, and without foolish pride.
  • Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Matthew5:6 — Actively pursuing righteousness, for ones self, and for humanities, goodness.
  • Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Matthew5:7 — To forgive, love and accept the person, regardless of history, separating the person from the deed.
  • Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Matthew5:8 — Having no self gratifying intent, to love unconditionally.
  • Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the sons of God.Matthew5:9 — Those slow to wrath, the patient mediators, who bridge the gap, to care, and help others regardless, or in spite of sin.
  • Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew5:10
Whether or not the beatitudes are the sum collective of a doorway to heaven, I do not know, but they are the path that I try to follow. On a more personal note; my main belief, is that we are each judged individually, no more, no less. It's up to us, what we take with us to our judgement.
Again I apologise for the length of this post, I tried, to be conclusive, and I have summarised where possible. Though I suspect I have addressed too many points.
Shaz
  • Citations taken from NIV - Life application Bible.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by commike37, posted 12-28-2004 1:23 AM commike37 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 50 by commike37, posted 12-30-2004 2:10 PM Shaz has not replied

      
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