Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,909 Year: 4,166/9,624 Month: 1,037/974 Week: 364/286 Day: 7/13 Hour: 2/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Beneficial Mutations
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 12 of 33 (184219)
02-09-2005 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 7:17 PM


follow jar's suggestion, and you shall find...
I looked at a good web site but all the evidence was that of adaptations of simple organisms...
If you do as jar suggests, and put "beneficial mutations" into Google, the very first hit is "Examples of Beneficial Mutations in Humans".
(Unless maybe you consider humans to be "simple organisms"...)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-09-2005 7:17 PM daaaaaBEAR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-09-2005 8:00 PM pink sasquatch has replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 14 of 33 (184230)
02-09-2005 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by daaaaaBEAR
02-09-2005 8:00 PM


Re: follow jar's suggestion, and you shall find...
it it was in english, then i could read it. I'm not a scientist.
Perhaps, but these are real sources, and not propaganda from a website pushing one view or another.
The initial jargon-shock doesn't mean you should throw your hands up - try scanning it, since they put the lay conclusions in bold:
The LPL Ser447-Stop mutation therefore should have a protective effect against the development of atherosclerosis and subsequent CAD.
These associations provide evidence for a common mutation that appears to confer beneficial lipid and lipoprotein profiles amongst an adult male population with regard to risk of CAD.
This is a rare example of an inherited functional human disorder in which a mutation affecting splicing still permits some correct splicing to occur and this has a beneficial effect to the phenotype of the patients.
Gbeta3-s appears to be associated with enhanced immune cell function in humans.
Patients with the QQ or H7H7 genotype had a decreased risk of myocardial infarction...
From this site.
From reading these, can you at least glean that beneficial mutations have been found in humans, that reduce heart disease and improve immune system function?
Though not on that site, mutations have also been found in humans that make them resistant to infectious disease (HIV, malaria), and better able to function in high-altitude, low-oxygen environments - and likely others as well.
Are you convinced yet?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-09-2005 8:00 PM daaaaaBEAR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-10-2005 12:09 AM pink sasquatch has replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 18 of 33 (184310)
02-10-2005 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by daaaaaBEAR
02-10-2005 12:09 AM


speciation and beneficial mutation NOT the same
no, sorry. If by convinced you mean converted to evolution then never
Never? How open-minded of you.
Actually, though, I meant, "are you convinced that beneficial mutations occur?" - I'm still wondering what you think on that point.
at the time I don't see how this article makes it possible for mutation that is more advanced than improvment against disease and immune systems, etc..
It doesn't, though I would say that a gene spreading through the human population that prevents HIV infection, or prevents heart disease despite a poor diet and smoking, is quite "advanced".
You are not going to find a single scientific paper that "proves" evolution. Each study presents its findings, nothing more. If it presented more, it would likely cease to be science.
Crashfrog says that every species is in a state of transition.
Every organism, including you, is a "transitional" between its/your parents and its/your children. If that wasn't the case, you would be identical to your parents and children.
If humans are are in transition then how does resistance to disease make us mutate into a different species?
You seem to be mixing up concepts a bit. You were asking about "beneficial mutations", which I gave you examples of in humans. Now you've switched the issue to "speciation", that is, one species becoming two species.
That article gives no examples of beneficial mutation that would lend to whole new species.
It is rare that a single mutation will result in a speciation event (for example, a mutation that alters reproductive behavior). Speciation is generally much more gradual, the result of accumulation of many genetic differences, often in geographically isolated groups.
Make sure you keep the two concepts "beneficial mutation" and "speciation" separate, since beneficial mutations are not necessarily required for speciation as you suggest in the above statement. Neutral genetic mutation can also result in speciation by producing reproductive compatibilities within a group, splitting it into two.
Perhaps reading over the thread How do we define a new species? will be helpful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-10-2005 12:09 AM daaaaaBEAR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-10-2005 5:43 PM pink sasquatch has replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 24 of 33 (184563)
02-11-2005 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by daaaaaBEAR
02-10-2005 5:43 PM


the question
I only leave room for truth.
hey daaaaaBEAR,
Hopefully you realize that this six-word non-response is downright rude, considering I put effort into a page-long response trying to inform you. Perhaps you care to respond to anything else in my post? Is there something you would like explained differently?
Specifically, do you now believe that beneficial mutations occur? That is the subject of the thread, and you have been given evidence.
What do you think? Do beneficial mutations occur?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by daaaaaBEAR, posted 02-10-2005 5:43 PM daaaaaBEAR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by kjsimons, posted 02-11-2005 11:15 AM pink sasquatch has not replied
 Message 28 by RAZD, posted 02-12-2005 1:47 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024