Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8985 total)
43 online now:
AZPaul3, Coragyps, CosmicChimp, kjsimons, PaulK (5 members, 38 visitors)
Newest Member: Jerry Johnson
Post Volume: Total: 877,812 Year: 9,560/23,288 Month: 575/1,544 Week: 289/561 Day: 25/52 Hour: 4/7


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The fate of Ms. Schiavo
Chad_Hilse1
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 82 (195893)
03-31-2005 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by crashfrog
03-31-2005 9:47 PM


havn't figgured out the quote boxes yet, but:
------------------------------------------------
I don't see how that matters, exactly.
------------------------------------------------

The point is, if she's totally unconcious, what happens to her isn't really going to concern her much; the only people that it will affect are the people around her. Since her husband is not negatively affected by her continued existance, why can't he humor her parents? (ned did bring up a good point however, perhaps it would be good for her parents to move on)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2005 9:47 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2005 10:00 PM Chad_Hilse1 has not yet responded
 Message 48 by RAZD, posted 03-31-2005 10:08 PM Chad_Hilse1 has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 20 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 47 of 82 (195896)
03-31-2005 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Chad_Hilse1
03-31-2005 9:54 PM


The point is, if she's totally unconcious, what happens to her isn't really going to concern her much;

You don't think that, as an adult, she's earned the right to have her wishes in this manner respected?

I don't understand why her lack of consciousness constitutes a basis to disregard her earlier decisions about her own medical care. By your reasoning you invalidate all wills, both living and the other kind.

Since her husband is not negatively affected by her continued existance, why can't he humor her parents?

Because that's not what Terri would have wanted, and as her husband he has a moral duty to carry out her wishes in her stead. I presume that his failure to carry out his late wife's wishes would be something that would negatively affect him. We should consider him heartless if it did not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Chad_Hilse1, posted 03-31-2005 9:54 PM Chad_Hilse1 has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 48 of 82 (195897)
03-31-2005 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Chad_Hilse1
03-31-2005 9:54 PM


it's about respecting wishes.

havn't figgured out the quote boxes yet,

to see how quote boxes work use the peek function to see what is causeing the formating you see. you can set the message you are replying to in "Peek Mode" (top right corner of the {reply to} message.

the one above is the simplest. just remember no spaces inside the [ ]'s and use the / to close the command

similarly useful commands are italics and bold

BE SURE TO USE PREVIEW as any mistakes will show up in red highlights.

Try it out at the {Practice makes Perfect} forum.

enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Chad_Hilse1, posted 03-31-2005 9:54 PM Chad_Hilse1 has not yet responded

  
coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3627
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 49 of 82 (195898)
03-31-2005 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by NosyNed
03-31-2005 8:42 PM


Re: Protecting the parents
Neddy writes:

The decision to allow her body to die protects the parents from themselves too.


This is the young me talking. If I were Mr. Schiavo, I'd give her over to the parents. (1) Ms. Schiavo wouldn't care either way because she's brain dead and (2) nothing would make me more happy than to screw a couple of conservatives over.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by NosyNed, posted 03-31-2005 8:42 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by roxrkool, posted 03-31-2005 11:17 PM coffee_addict has not yet responded

  
Ben!
Member
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 50 of 82 (195901)
03-31-2005 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Chad_Hilse1
03-31-2005 8:41 PM


Re: it's a little late now, but...
Why not just let her live?

Why not take all that wasted money and put it to a good use? Maybe, say, support the live*S* of some people who still exist, who can feel discomfort, who can participate in life.

Rich people need to get their acts together. Clearly these people don't care about "right to live" or "life" - they just care about the right for THEIR OWN children to live.

Pull the plug and use her organs. Give away the money. Have a real heart.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Chad_Hilse1, posted 03-31-2005 8:41 PM Chad_Hilse1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by kjn, posted 03-31-2005 11:08 PM Ben! has not yet responded
 Message 54 by Chad_Hilse1, posted 03-31-2005 11:23 PM Ben! has not yet responded

  
kjn
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 82 (195905)
03-31-2005 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Ben!
03-31-2005 10:38 PM


Re: it's a little late now, but...
Ben,
You may have noticed that I do not believe that it was wrong to have the feeding tube removed. However I completely disagree with the circumstances that surround this incident. As I have stated several times, since Ms. Schiavo did not leave her desires known (Mr. Schiavo did not remember them until eight years after his wife entered into this state) the decision was forced to be made by someone else. Given that Mr. Schiavo had entered into a new relationship with a woman he called his fiance, even while his wife was alive, and had two children by this new women, I felt that he had forfeitted the right to make such a decision. Based on this I felt the decision should be made by her parents. As some have noted, the courts disagreed. It is really quite irrelevant now that she has died, however.
Some have suggested that this is a right-wing issue. Not so for even left leaning individuals such as Jesse Jackson, and Ralph Nader had come to the defense of Ms. Schiavo.
She is dead now, and I see no reason to continue this topic. Leave it to the lawmakers, who I suspect will be busy.
kjn

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Ben!, posted 03-31-2005 10:38 PM Ben! has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by crashfrog, posted 03-31-2005 11:15 PM kjn has not yet responded
 Message 75 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-04-2005 3:00 AM kjn has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 20 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 52 of 82 (195907)
03-31-2005 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by kjn
03-31-2005 11:08 PM


Given that Mr. Schiavo had entered into a new relationship with a woman he called his fiance, even while his wife was alive, and had two children by this new women, I felt that he had forfeitted the right to make such a decision.

Do you think maybe that was Terri's parents' plan all along, when they suggested to Michael that he should date other women?

Not so for even left leaning individuals such as Jesse Jackson, and Ralph Nader had come to the defense of Ms. Schiavo.

Bah, opportunists. You'll notice that they only came to her "defense" well after the opportunity to actually do anything had passed.

Leave it to the lawmakers, who I suspect will be busy.

Busy what?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by kjn, posted 03-31-2005 11:08 PM kjn has not yet responded

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 53 of 82 (195908)
03-31-2005 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by coffee_addict
03-31-2005 10:13 PM


Re: Protecting the parents
See, that's how I feel, too.

Besides, I have a serious problem with pulling the plug on anyone who isn't comatose. For me personally, I could never convince myself beyond a reasonable doubt that she was completely incapable of cognizant thought. It may not look like it on the outside, but what about on the inside?

Although, to be honest, I don't know anything about her medical treatments (scans, tests, etc.). If it was shown that her brain did not record any activity at all, then I think I would not feel so uncomfortable about the whole thing. Was that the case?

I would have preferred Terri Shiavo not appear alert in the least, before cutting off her life support.

This message has been edited by roxrkool, 03-31-2005 11:19 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by coffee_addict, posted 03-31-2005 10:13 PM coffee_addict has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Chad_Hilse1, posted 03-31-2005 11:42 PM roxrkool has not yet responded
 Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 04-01-2005 2:39 AM roxrkool has not yet responded

  
Chad_Hilse1
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 82 (195909)
03-31-2005 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Ben!
03-31-2005 10:38 PM


Re: it's a little late now, but...
Why not take all that wasted money and put it to a good use?

Another good point. It would be truly awesome if somthing like that could actually be done. However, it's America, and we don't care about anyone but ourselves; either the money is going to be spent keeping Terri alive, or buying Michael a new car. If the money is just going to be selfishly squandered in the USA, why not let it be used to keep a few old people happy?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Ben!, posted 03-31-2005 10:38 PM Ben! has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by NosyNed, posted 03-31-2005 11:44 PM Chad_Hilse1 has not yet responded
 Message 61 by nator, posted 04-01-2005 9:55 AM Chad_Hilse1 has not yet responded

  
Chad_Hilse1
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 82 (195910)
03-31-2005 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by roxrkool
03-31-2005 11:17 PM


Re: Protecting the parents
but what about on the inside?

According to:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0324brain-damaged-excerpts24-ON.html

"Her brain studies and brain wave tests showed that she has a brain which is predominantly replaced by spinal fluid."

sounds like she was pretty well gone to me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by roxrkool, posted 03-31-2005 11:17 PM roxrkool has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8933
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 56 of 82 (195911)
03-31-2005 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Chad_Hilse1
03-31-2005 11:23 PM


Keeping old people happy
..why not let it be used to keep a few old people happy?

It would be cheaper to buy them drugs to keep them in a delusional state. Whatever you may think I don't think supporting their delusions in such a macabre fashion is "keeping them happy". It is a form of torture all the worse because they want it to continue.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Chad_Hilse1, posted 03-31-2005 11:23 PM Chad_Hilse1 has not yet responded

  
coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3627
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 57 of 82 (195931)
04-01-2005 2:29 AM


Posting this link is against my better judgement, but here goes nothing.

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by RAZD, posted 04-01-2005 7:18 AM coffee_addict has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 20 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 58 of 82 (195936)
04-01-2005 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by roxrkool
03-31-2005 11:17 PM


Re: Protecting the parents
I would have preferred Terri Shiavo not appear alert in the least, before cutting off her life support.

Well, she wasn't "alert" in any way, she was just awake.

You know how when you touch something hot, you feel the burn, but your body has already snatched your hand away? Before you told it to? That's the situation Terri was in - just a body doing reflex things. The part of the brain that controls wakefulness was very much present in Terri - the part of the brain that controls alertness and awareness were totally gone.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by roxrkool, posted 03-31-2005 11:17 PM roxrkool has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 59 of 82 (195981)
04-01-2005 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by coffee_addict
04-01-2005 2:29 AM


Re: Posting this link is against my better judgement, but here goes nothing.
"Hello my baby
hello my honey
hello my rag-time gaaaal

ribbit"

classic cartoon.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by coffee_addict, posted 04-01-2005 2:29 AM coffee_addict has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by kjsimons, posted 04-01-2005 8:23 AM RAZD has responded

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 691
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 60 of 82 (195994)
04-01-2005 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by RAZD
04-01-2005 7:18 AM


Re: Posting this link is against my better judgement, but here goes nothing.
Singing the "Michigan Rag" ! :D

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by RAZD, posted 04-01-2005 7:18 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by RAZD, posted 04-01-2005 9:10 PM kjsimons has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020