Is the Present Government Hurting U.S. Democracy with Fake News?

You must hate them too. Hey, you said it, not me. You're the one that's condoning these positions and actions by describing them.

show me where i described or even mentioned nazi bias of any kind? i mentioned specific and documented actions, when you prompted it. i did not describe what motivated those actions, but did elaborate that it is biased to assert that it was only one specific group.you're really good at reading things aren't there.

Sorry, Arach. I don't talk with anti-semites.

but you do associate with rapists?gosh you're being obtuse. for one you're carrying a debate over from another thread. it has no place here. keep it to the other thread. and for another, you're reading completely the wrong bias, which tells me that you don't know the first thing about what you'e talking about in this thread or the other one.at least be CONSISTENT to my argument if you're gonna make fun of it. saying that what i said promotes anti-semitism is like me saying your argument in the other thread promotes rape. which is not what i'm saying at all.

I was aware of your analogy but probably wasn't clear myself. It is my opinion that holding U.S. citizens without rights to an attorney or habeus corpus is very close to the form of an internment camp, albeit one that is more strict in who becomes interned. I also think an internment camp doesn't necessarily have to hold ALL of the muslim population and they all don't need to be from the country having the camps. If you look at internment camps for japanese in WW2, they were mainly for those japanese on the west coast, while those living on the east coast of the united states continued to go to work and live at home.While I don't believe that this country as a whole would condone sending our own muslim population to these camps, it seems awfully easy for the government to jail and take away the rights of U.S. muslim citizens who are "suspected" of supporting terrorism. The justification for refusing rights to individuals which we have jailed is that they "might" be terrorists seems too easy. I don't think we can make an analogy with nazi germany but I would say that nazi germany didn't start out sending their jewish population to internment camps, they started making laws that eroded basic human rights of the jewish population. I am sure clandestine and overt (discriminatory) surveilance was one. I would hazard a guess that if another terrorist act was commited on U.S. soil and it was attributed to a muslim, we could see further erosion of rights, such as a national identification system for muslims or some strict controls or monitoring overtly, their movement.(Slightly off topic but I think interelated.)To stear this back towards the topic, I think the United States government is most likely surpressing information about who they are holding and why, in what they consider a national security interest The danger in my view is at what point does national security usurp the rights of the individual. Government can too easily slip into the "Keep it secret for National Security" mindset and take away rights sometimes without the population realizing it or caringOne form of this secretive issue is the creation of fake news, in order to hide, manipulate, or deflect interest away from issues such as War, internments, or anything else related to national security. One of the fake news programs I saw produced by this government was a news feed showing "cheering and elated" Iraqis for the January election. What it turns out to be is a staged event. The government paid these poeple to cheer and be happy and read from a script how they felt. What kind of information does that tell you the U.S. government is feeding its people?

very good points. i agree.

I tend to save and copy to my hard drive those stories I find worrisome. Of course lately I have had to purge much just because I needed more room for actual work. Feel free to bring this list up, I am already aware of Faux news but it might be interesting to see which stories from our government were picked up by the newswires or actually planted. I mean if the government can have a "pseudo-journalist" planted in the white house press room, how much easier to just plant the stories. Or they could just pay "journalists" to be cheerleaders for the government's programs, oh wait...that already happened.

The theme, as I see it, is the quality of the output of the U.S. news and information industry.Adminnemooseus (Unfair and biased)

In my reply to Mick's message 9 I touched on some of this subject. (only mention this because I didn't want to be redundant, in case you read it already) What I'd also like to add, is what effect might Alberto "I don't condone torture" Gonzales have in regards to the patriot act. It seems that the FBI/(CIA?) is looking to expand some of the powers from the Patriot act and to extend the life of those already given. With the Republicans threatening to use the "Nuclear Option" regarding fillibusters, they may be able to get these chages pushed through. Whether they have the support I am not sure but it looks like the train is picking up steam and leaving the station.(edited to add: but this is off topic and since I started the thread I should try to stay more focused.)This message has been edited by DBlevins, 04-06-2005 03:40 AM

{Original content deleted}I have taken this message and turned it into its own topic.Please see Yuca Mountain Nuclear Waste Depository.AdminnemooseusThis message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-06-2005 02:28 PMThis message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-06-2005 05:46 PM

You know, here I am sitting at a university with lexis-nexis access and I never used it. Now that you have turned me on to it, I WILL use it.I never heard of the napalm thing. One search for "napalm" landed a dozen or so hits about Fallujah.Again, you have my gratitude!Here is one example from right after the election:

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SECTION: Pg. 5

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LENGTH: 269 words

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HEADLINE: Coalition 'may have used napalm in Iraq';

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BODY:
PEACE campaigners urged Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon yesterday to come clean on whether coalition forces had used illegal napalm during attacks on the Iraqi city of Fallujah.

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Fallujah residents reported that innocent civilians had been killed by napalm, a poisonous cocktail of polystyrene and jet fuel which makes the human body melt.

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Abu Hammad, who lives in the Julan district of the city, which witnessed some of the heaviest attacks, claimed that chemical weapons had been used.

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"They used everything - tanks, artillery, infantry and poisonous gas. Fallujah has been bombed to the ground, " he said.

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Fellow resident Abu Sabah agreed, saying: "They used these weird bombs that put up smoke like a mushroom cloud then small pieces fall from the air with long tails of smoke behind them."

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Halifax Labour MP Alice Mahon, whose question to Mr Hoon requesting a statement on whether napalm had been used was disallowed by Commons Speaker Michael Martin, said that the reports from people who were in Fallujah display all the hallmarks of its use.

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"We are signed up to the UN protocol that napalm will not be used again, " she said.

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"The US never signed it, yet we are part of the coalition and equally responsible."

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CND chairwoman Kate Hudson insisted that it was a matter of the utmost urgency that the Blair government clarifies whether napalm has been used in Iraq.

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"Use of this terrible chemical constitutes a war crime and the consequences of its use in Vietnam were barbaric, " she said.

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A Foreign Office spokesman said that the government condemned any use of napalm.

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LOAD-DATE: December 23, 2004

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I say to anyone who even lives near a university to visit the library and hit this thing regularly.

Book:
Ben Bagdikian - The New Media MonopolyInterview:
David Barsamian interviews Ben Bagdikian for Alternative Radio.Transcription of interview is available in the March 2005 issue of Z Magazine.
I think it will eventually be available online to non-subscribers also.Recording of interview for sale at http://alternativeradio.org/programs/BAGB007.shtml
All Ben Bagdikian at Page not found — Alternative RadioReal Audio feed (and at least for now 96k MP3 feed) at Playlist for The Belly of the Beast with Stefan - April 8, 2005
WFMU: The Belly of the Beast with Stefan: Playlist from April 8, 2005
Click on the available feed option of your choice. The "Propaganda Hour" starts 2 hours into the show (I've checked the "Real Audio" version - If you go to 2:00:00 you are just before the beginning). There are sometimes links at the right edge of the playlists, to jump to specific points in the show, but they don't yet seem to be in place .Direct link to real audio feed:
http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=14682&archive=19387Direct link to MP3 feed:
http://www.wfmu.org/listen.m3u?show=14682&archive=19388Maybe I'm a leftist, but I thought this was probably the most powerful hour of talk radio I ever heard.MooseAdded by edit: Check out the very begining of the show also.This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 04-08-2005 04:24 PMThis message has been edited by minnemooseus, 04-10-2005 06:19 AM

I'm moving the 2 messages of the Democracy Redefined....Must Read! topic, to this topic.Shadow7's message 1:

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Think about this. Read the entire article.....and really think about what is being kept from the public....

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DEMOCRACY REDEFINED!

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A TvNewsLIES.org ANALYSIS OF
MANTRA MANIPULATION
BY G. W. BUSH AND THE MEDIA

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CARROTS AND WATERMELONS

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If George W. Bush were to hold up a carrot and call it a watermelon, the American news media would immediately begin calling carrots watermelons. That’s an undeniable fact. Equally undeniable is the fact that we have long passed the point when we can trust the American corporate media to report the news. But even more distressing is the fact that we now have reached the point when we cannot even trust them with the English language.

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Let’s be very clear here: despite media claims to the contrary, the Bush administration has not put forth a single initiative designed to advance democracy, - not in America and not anywhere in the world. In fact, the Bush administration has set in motion programs designed to dismantle our democracy in order that its real goal can be achieved. That real goal is unrestricted capitalism and corporate profit.

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Capitalism is fine. Unrestricted capitalism is tyranny. When corporations seek profits with absolutely no concern for the rights and the needs of the people, democracy dies. In this administration, corporate profits supersede all else. In this administration, all legislation is intent upon providing the greatest profits to corporate campaign contributors, and let the people be damned!

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Corporate America has been awarded greater freedom of oversight under the Bush administration than every before in history. And for every benefit gained to corporate America, the average citizen in this country has suffered a severe and irreparable loss.

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Under Bush Administration initiatives, the American people now have the newly expanded freedom to be unemployed, to be homeless, to be deprived of medical insurance, and to be unable to afford prescription drugs without fear of government interference!

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They now have the newly expanded freedom to breathe polluted air, to fear new mercury levels, to see great forests being thinned and pristine lands drilled for oil, and to remain helpless as the planet succumbs to global warming.

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They are more free to live with skyrocketing deficits, reduced social programs, exorbitant energy costs, and tax cuts for the wealthy.

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They are more free to die in illegal wars, to have their civil liberties disintegrate and see their personal choices invaded by the religious right.

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They are more free to be hated by the world community and feared by nations who respected them in the past.

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Much more, including chart showing mantras and reality:

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http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/democracy_redefined.html

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Contracycle's message 2:

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Agreed. Its actually quite firghtening to see how much of the manioulation is purely semantic, i.e. the kind of stuff that should get analysed by a competent media organisation, but which is not.

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Thus the Us talks about "spreading democracy" and this goes unchallenged; how the violent conquest of a state by force majeur in any way constitutes "the export of democracy" remains unexplained. The viewer is left a space in to which to interpolate what this actually means.

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They used to say that journalism was the first draft of history, recordings of impressions before analysis. But now there is no first draft, merely repetition, on the basis that the viewer is to be left to make theiur own choice. As such, journalism no longer plays an investigative, socially valuable role.

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Adminnemooseus

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ROFL!!!You believe everything you read eh?No, the US (or coalition) is not using napalm.Great source of info though. "Fallujah residents."

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

Amongst others.

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"We napalmed both those [bridge] approaches," said Colonel James Alles, commander of Marine Air Group 11. "Unfortunately there were people there ... you could see them in the [cockpit] video. They were Iraqi soldiers. It's no great way to die. The generals love napalm. It has a big psychological effect."

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"You can't expect him to be answering your prayers when he's not real, can you? That's like writing to the characters of a soap opera and expecting a reply, Mr. Silly Sausage!"
-Jane Christie