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Author Topic:   Archaeology and Origins, A scientific view
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 33 (20918)
10-27-2002 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by JtG
10-25-2002 3:57 PM


JtG
Thanks for that JtG.
The recent trend towards open plan living appears to be occurring convergently in different taxa. And what about that fascinating architectural innovation - what looks like cheap cables are appearing stectched taught all over the floor plans of separate but recent taxa and being pronounced 'trendy'. What are the environmental forces driving these things?
I'm convinced, as unsophisticated as it sounds, that there is a design process going on somewhere. I'm not prepared to go out on a limb and name names yet but I have my hunches.
Someone or something is also mysteriously making my bed, and my kids' beds, in the morning too.
[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 10-27-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by JtG, posted 10-25-2002 3:57 PM JtG has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Quetzal, posted 10-28-2002 2:22 AM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 33 (20952)
10-28-2002 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Quetzal
10-28-2002 2:22 AM


^ Quetzal, I fear I am beginning to be swayed in the opposite direction after reading 'The Blind Condo-Maker' last night. I tried not to succumb but the clarity and beauty of the presentation convinced me that these objects are the result of a systematic evolutionary process. It is simply too easy to ascribe these processes to design. When we become aware that every property of a dwelling that seems to have a 'purpose' can also be viewed as a survival advantage we must admit that IAD is imply unnecessary. There need not be any designer, instead, at each stage of evolution the environment opportunistically selects the architecture with the best survival value. I even find it more intellectually satisfying to think of the Sydney Opera house as having arrived via such a blindfolded processes. The Archi-myth that an international contest was won by a Swedish architect and the project went to contract and was actually completed by thousands of construction contractors in front of the eyes of the world has no more validity to it than the absurd claims of the likes of NASA and their so-called moon trips.
I am currently reading the 'Egotistical 2 by 4' and will post a review soon.
[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 10-28-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Quetzal, posted 10-28-2002 2:22 AM Quetzal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by mark24, posted 10-28-2002 6:54 PM Tranquility Base has replied
 Message 26 by Quetzal, posted 10-29-2002 2:30 AM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 33 (20963)
10-28-2002 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by mark24
10-28-2002 6:54 PM


^ OK . . . the book has a capitization I forgot to transcribe.

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Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 33 (21065)
10-29-2002 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Quetzal
10-29-2002 2:30 AM


Quetzal
Everytime we find a transition from one architecture into another you simply want to see more links. Can you distinguish, at a mechanistic level, microarchitectural evolution from macroarchetetural evolution? Your arguements about construction material families is as simplistic as that of architetural styles. It is just another Architect-of-the-gaps arguement.
And of course we have never seen Opera houses turning into gas stations. For a start that is not the evolutionary order uncovered by archeontologists which you should know if you were a PhDed architect as you claim to be, and secondly there has not been enough time. We empirically know that gas stations have turned into Opera houses due to cladistics (based both on materials and phenotype) and the ruin orderings which are consistent with each other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Quetzal, posted 10-29-2002 2:30 AM Quetzal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Andya Primanda, posted 10-30-2002 1:30 AM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 33 (21137)
10-30-2002 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Andya Primanda
10-30-2002 1:30 AM


Andya
A-evolutionists suggest that the network between tennants and landlords is a symbiotic realtionship with the dwelling itself playing only a spectator role. It is agreed that only one half of the equation is understood (rent goiong to the landlord). The model predicts a benefit to the tennant which remains to be uncovered. As such the ToA is falsifiable unlike the alternative.
The design model is quite ludicrous and arbitary. The IAD camp would have us believe that dwellings are individually designed and built by higher intelligences for arbitary, often unspecified or even trivial purposes. Beauty and splendor become absolutes and purposes other than survival become the rule. Does anyone really doubt that the facade on the Chrysler building is functional? Modern architurence has demonstarted the survival characteristics that such features can potentially induce. Such vestiges cannot be denied and betray a common descent of Architecture.
Hold on, I just found an abstract on Archiline:
A tri-symbiotic relationship caught in the act
S.L. James & P.K. Simons
J. Archt. Evol & Ecol. 45, 1230-1247 (2002)
The mechanism of symbiosis betwee tennants and landlords has been under fierce debate in recent years. Whilst the budget is understood in one direction, with rent being exchnged from tennants to landlords the return has never been indentified. Here we show, through experimental studies in downtown Toronto, that dwellings, rather than being spectators, are involved in a tri-symbiotic realtionship with tennants and landlords. Landlords have been unambiguously observed to have repaired apartments on the south side of town which correlate in time with rent back-payments (p < .002). We suggest that the dwellings provide accomodation to tennants becasue tennants pay rent to landlords who repair dwellings.
[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 10-30-2002]

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 Message 29 by Andya Primanda, posted 10-30-2002 1:30 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Quetzal, posted 10-31-2002 10:05 AM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 33 (21215)
10-31-2002 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Quetzal
10-31-2002 10:05 AM


But you are quoting these evoarchitects out of context Quetzal. A broader citation would demonstrate that despite the pauctiy of links discovered in the field these architists have mountains of alternative evidence in the fields of archigeography and archihomology.
And we have discovered some very good links since these comments were stated. We have uncovered Opera house-like gas stations and airports with seats. Your so-called "pinnacle of creation", the modern sky scraper, has been demonstrated to be genotypically no more compex than other archioammals since the Scraper Archome Project was completed (without union delays).
[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 10-31-2002]

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Andya Primanda, posted 10-31-2002 8:36 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
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