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Author Topic:   Is the Bible Totally reliable ? The Nativity
lfen
Member (Idle past 4707 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 46 of 94 (218127)
06-19-2005 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
06-19-2005 10:55 AM


Re: Rather sleazy methodology methinks
It's a huge waste of time and just another excuse to bully Christians.
Bully Christians? What? We are after your lunch money? Someone disagreeing with you is bullying you? You can't support your argument and can't refute the oppostion so you start making random accusations.
You have a real problem. You want to believe something that is not factually or scientifically supported as if it was. I didn't put you in that position. Ignoring the arguments is one way to avoid changing your beliefs or recognizing you delima. I suppose accussing debaters here of bullying you allows you to feel like you are participating in stories of martydom from the first centuries.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 06-19-2005 10:55 AM Faith has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4707 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 50 of 94 (218218)
06-20-2005 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by randman
06-20-2005 11:10 AM


What would his motive to lie be here?
People can and are often mistaken without lying. I'll cite you as an example. I don't think you are lying I just think you are wrong. Luke could have heard it wrong, misremembered it, got it confused with somehting else. This happens all the time.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by randman, posted 06-20-2005 11:10 AM randman has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4707 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 94 of 94 (317612)
06-04-2006 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Mako
04-11-2006 12:26 PM


Re: More Problems
Mako,
Welcome to the forum!
Here is a small yet very important practical request I have for you. I am very near sighted but others have also commented on how physically hard it is to read mass text of this forum. If you break your posts into units people will find it much easier to read and thus to respond to. I haven't for example yet read all the way through your post. Below I'm will quote it and break it into units to give you a demonstration that you can check yourself to see that it's easier to comprehend.
Well, there are even more problems than that. Any birth date would have to meet certain critieria. According to the gospels, Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist when he (Jesus) was about 30 and during his (Jesus’) ministry, John was executed/ beheading by order of Herod (Herod Antipas).
If you check Josephus, you will find that he reports John’s death to be around the year 36 CE (this is arrived at obliquely by observing the defeat of Herod by his former father-in-law and the subsequent Roman action in support of Herod that occurred in 37 CE).
Luke reports that John began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius’ reign (about 28 CE) and it is believed that John’s ministry lasted only 6 months before his words on Herod’s marriage to Herodias angered Herod and resulted in his being imprisoned. The date would also have to support Jesus being tried before Pontius Pilate. Pilate was recalled to Rome and left in late 36 CE or early 37 CE. It is believed that one reason the Roman Army that supported Herod wintered in Judea was to put Pilate’s replacement in office and send Pilate packing back to Rome.
It should now be fairly evident that none of the dates predicated by the gospels (Matthew and Luke) come anywhere near meeting all the criteria necessary. Dates that correspond with Herod the Great’s reign would be much too early and would have Jesus beginning his ministry prior to John the Baptist, and dying prior to John the Baptist, not to mention being prior to Quintilus being in office.
If you go by Luke and accept a date during the term of Quintilus, then the dates offered by Matthew can’t be met, plus Jesus would not have begun his ministry until the year John was executed and the final year of Pilates term in office (that is utilizing the earliest day of Quintilus term - 6 CE).
There is no way that the gospels can be telling the truth about the birth (or for that matter the death) of Jesus of Nazareth (we won’t even go into the lack of existence of this town in 1st century CE.)
This is a friendly request. And now that I can read your post I look forward to reading your future contributions but please a bit more "white" space!
Thanks,
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Mako, posted 04-11-2006 12:26 PM Mako has not replied

  
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