[QUOTE]Originally posted by forgiven:
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Originally posted by Brian Johnston:
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Originally posted by forgiven:
i'm not sure if you misunderstood my post or not.. i did ask whether or not you had an opinion as to the odds of a car being left, as described, if a tornado blew through a junk yard and how those odds would stack up against the odds of humans existing on earth... iow, which is more likely to occur?
There are so many factors that need to be considered here that havent been addressed, for example, you need to have the correct materials available in the junkyard to have ANY chance of your car being left in the tornado's wake. For the sake of argument we will assume that all components for your car are there. Both scenarios are likely to be in the billions to one category, there is a chance that both COULD happen, even if it is one chance in a billion billion, there is still that chance.
But regarding life on earth, the odds get reduced after each stage of evolution. So, as we know life has evolved, there is no doubt about this, and, as far as I know, no one has seen your car appear after the tornado, or the jumbo jet in the original argument, then life on earth would have the most chance of happening.
As to the question about design and disabled babies, God is meant to be perfect and his designs should also be perfect. If God creates something that has a faulty component then that negates God's omniscience.
Brian.
brian, the odds of life appearing on earth has been calculated (sorry, i don't have the sources) to be greater than the combined total of all electrons in the universe to 1... imagine what had to occur for life to first appear here... those gas clouds had to cool to just the right temperature, gravity had to be just right, energy sources, all the crashing and spinning had to be perfect, not only in this tiny solar system but in each... and this had to occur for 15 billion years (give or take).. if you feel comfortable subtracting 3 or 4 billion so evolution can account for life after the first life, go ahead... the point stands
do you think the tornado is as unlikely to produce that car as bb is to lead to life here? for the odds to hold, there would have to be cars and jumbo jets all over the place
*brian, the odds of life appearing on earth has been calculated (sorry, i don't have the sources) to be greater than the combined total of all electrons in the universe to 1... imagine what had to occur for life to first appear here... those gas clouds had to cool to just the right temperature, gravity had to be just right, energy sources, all the crashing and spinning had to be perfect, not only in this tiny solar system but in each... and this had to occur for 15 billion years (give or take).. if you feel comfortable subtracting 3 or 4 billion so evolution can account for life after the first life, go ahead... the point stands*
Sorry, but I don’t think your point stands at all. Without sources how can you expect me to take this seriously, what factors were considered in the calculation, do we have knowledge of ALL the factors anyway?
*do you think the tornado is as unlikely to produce that car as bb is to lead to life here? for the odds to hold, there would have to be cars and jumbo jets all over the place*
Sorry, but this is a very poor analogy, one that you haven’t thought through.
The big problem with your analogy is that the components used by the tornado to make the car/jumbo jet have been made by the entities formed by the BB and evolution. Unless, of course, your tornado built mines for iron ore and coal, then built moulding shops, then picked cotton, spun the cotton for the seat fabric, shaped this to fit the seatsetc. it is really not a good analogy at all
So the odds for life on earth are far lower than that of the tornado/car/jumbo jet as, you have the odds of life appearing THEN you add to that the odds of the tornado doing it’s stuff!
Do you still believe in God?
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Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!
[This message has been edited by Brian Johnston, 12-10-2002]
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