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Author | Topic: Is God determined to allow no proof or evidence of his existence? Part II | |||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Please don't start that game.
The original OP:
Do you think God is determined to allow no proof or evidence of his existence -- or do you think that God is determined to allow ample proof or evidence of his existence? Not do you believe, not do you know, but do you think. Stop stalling and present the evidence. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Anyplace you want.
"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Sounds great! Go for it!
"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Nicely written, but very long. What you seem to have provided for me is evidence of a Creator.
quote:Since we have already assumed the existence of God for this thread, I guess I assumed that we assumed he was the creator of all things. Did I assume to much with my assumptions? Do we need to add that to the list of assumptions? What you have shown me is that God WAS active, but what has he done TODAY? Does God do anything physically today to maintain biological rhythms or do they maintain themselves?
quote:Exactly! To establish the proof of his presence in real time. That's what you should be showing me. Proof of God's presence today. Creation is not evidence that God is present NOW. The great flood is not evidence that God is present NOW. Christ's resurrection is not evidence that God is present NOW. He could be off visiting another galaxy monitoring the progress of a new project. What evidence does God provide that can be scientifically substantiated to show that he is present today? "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Not necessarily. Even this article you cited elsewhere doesn't intimate outside maintenance of our rhythmic systems. God's Mysterious 7-Day Cycle Our bodies are carefully designed for self-protection even in matters of time. On the one hand we are an orchestra of rhythms, on the other our bodies demand stability and sameness --an automatic pull to homeostasis (the maintenance of a beneficial equilibrium, a self-regulated norm). Campbell explains: "The two regulatory systems, one imposing sameness in time, the other providing orderly change, are complementary rather than being in conflict. A body function alters in a rhythmic fashion, and homeostasis stabilizes the altered state of that function. quote:Please do. Whatever order you prefer. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Not self regulated, but self protection as stated in the article. Our bodies are carefully designed for self-protection even in matters of time. The creator programmed it to be a system created to maintain itself so the creator wouldn't have to. No maintenance. Seems to support absence instead of presence. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:So all you have given me is an unknown, not a verified presence of God. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I disagree, but continue. quote:You aren't limited to soundbites, buzzwords, or meaningless dribble. Since you like to supply a lot of information, here is a tip that may help you. Make your point first.
The seven day week may not be an invention of man, but an innate rhythm installed by God. or Our internal seven day rhythm is evidence of God's presence since it ... (or whatever you felt your overall point was) When writing for the newspaper they told us to put the important information first. The reasoning is that your story may get cut short due to limited space in the paper. The same tactic will work well here. Make your point at the beginning then provide the proof. Then restate your conclusion at the end. Get the readers attention so they will want to read the rest of the post. In a medium like this one where people pop in to quickly see what is going on, you may lose their interest if the point of your post doesn't present itself quickly. ABE: Better subtitle This message has been edited by purpledawn, 10-26-2005 11:01 AM "I refuse to think of them as chin hairs. I think of them as stray eyebrows." -Janette Barber-
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:That is my contention. God does not allow his existence (presence) to be scientifically substantiated today. I haven't found that the scriptures really provide a why though. "I refuse to think of them as chin hairs. I think of them as stray eyebrows." -Janette Barber-
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Mr. Ex,
In Message 145 you asked why I disagree. I'm attaching the reply to Message 130 because that's where your info was and it makes it easier for me to refer to it. quote:You have shown that science has found a seven day rhythm among other rhythms within living things. I don't feel that you have made a true connection between humans using a seven day week and this natural rhythm. You have shown that "weeks" have varied in length among cultures.
"Weeks" varying in length from three to nineteen days have existed in past cultures. Did those cultures change the length of their week because of their internal rhythm or because a stronger culture took over? Did having a longer or shorter week adversely affect their physical health? The seven day week is associated with Babylonian Astronomy.
The seven-day cycle makes its earliest appearance in Babylonian documents of the 7th century BCE. It is not quite yet the week as we know it, however. In origin, it seems to have been one fourth of the approximate time in a month the moon was visible. In short, it does not include the days around the new moon, and is not therefore a continuous cycle. To picture what this "week" was like, imagine one of our months with four regular weeks, and then a few epagomenal days at the end of the month, which do not belong to any week. The Jews adjusted what the Babylonians started.
Another difference between the Hebrew and the Babylonian calendar is the treatment of the 7-day cycle. Recall that the Babylonians had a 7-day cycle, but the days around the new moon when it was invisible were not included. In the Jewish scheme, the 7-day intervals between Sabbaths runs independently of the months and years. There are no epagomenal days. The days are numbered 1 to 7. Only the Sabbath, the seventh day, is named, although day 6 is sometimes called ereb shabbat, "the day preceding the Sabbath." They just started counting and started over after seven. According to the book by Paul Johnson,"A History of the Jews", the Jews were influenced by Babylonian astronomy.
The concept of the Sabbath, strongly reinforced by what they learned from Babylonian astronomy, became the focus of the Jewish week, and 'Shabbetai' was the most popular new name invented during the Exile. The Jewish calendar was also reformed during the common era.
In the 2nd and 3rd centuries CE, the Jewish calendar was reformed. The primary purpose of this reform was to regularize the intercalation of months and the length of the months. Using the Metonic cycle of 19 solar years, months are intercalated in years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 of the cycle, exactly the same spacing as in the Babylonian cycle. I don't see the relationship between the seven day week and our seven day rhythm other than the number seven. Does the first day of our seven day cycle always start on the first day of the week? If not, then I don't see where one affects the other. "I refuse to think of them as chin hairs. I think of them as stray eyebrows." -Janette Barber-
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Mr. Ex.
I don't think my reply showed up on your topic index. "When women are depressed they either eat or go shopping. Men invade another country." -Elayne Boosler-
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
I understand the seven day rhythm. I understand that our bodies have highs and lows etc.
How would a shorter or longer social week affect the seven day rhythm and a persons health?
quote:These deal with biological functions. IMO, the social week does not affect biological functions. "When women are depressed they either eat or go shopping. Men invade another country." -Elayne Boosler-
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3486 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Welcome to EvC One4Truth,
You aren't really addressing the point of the original discussion. This thread is dealing with whether God allows or doesn't allow his existence to be scientifically substantiated. The questions in the original OP are:
OP writes: Do you think God is determined to allow no proof or evidence of his existence -- or do you think that God is determined to allow ample proof or evidence of his existence?
quote:Actually I have a photo of my 3rd great grandfather and I've been to the burial site of my 3rd great grandparents. I also have a paper trail back to my 13th great grandfather. This is just one line of my father's paternal side. This house of my 10th great grandfather from my father's maternal line still stands in New York. A couple of houses that one of my 3rd great grandfathers, on my father's maternal side, built are still standing. I have in my possession the Bible of my 3rd great grandmother, with their family photos in them. So you see, I have no problem physically substantiating the existence of my 3rd great grandparents. I also know where they are all buried.
quote:Granted as time passes evidence diminishes, but I am not a god. I will not always exist. Supposedly God is existing, not existed. So the point is, does the living God allow evidence of his current existence to be scientifically substantiated to where belief is not necessary to understand that God currently exists? There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton
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